Still cant get them off !!

[Shappers]

Hi gman,

Did you check out that thread that I posted a link to? If you look again you'll see it had a happy ending and you will see some nice pictures of all the crap that builds up on the front two studs.

I spent 3 months getting mine off. I even tried winching them off , I used so much force that the barrels were lifting 1mm at the edges but nothing in the middle. If yours are stuck like mine a hammer is never going to shift them.



The only way I could get mine off was to make up a tool to go down over the studs and cut away all the crap which builds up at the base of the front studs.



The other member in the thread did it by using o-ring picks to slowly work the crap out of the way...


Nice truck BTW renegade

[prometheus578]

"Nice job on the tool, Shappers!"

I'll need to remember that one.

[gman]

Love the strap set up !!
when i do finally separate the jugs, will i need to replace the piston rings when i rebuild the engine?

Cheers
Gary

[prometheus578]

"Hopefully not."

Depends on why you're rebuilding in the first place.
You state that you wanted to replace snapped head bolts. If the compression was previously good, and the bike didn't burn oil, and the mileage is low, etc, there should be no reason to replace the rings.
Most times with bikes, once the head's off and you look into the cylinders, you can still see most of the original cross-hatch pattern on the cylinder walls. This is a good thing.
Replacement piston rings (of standard size) are made out of Unobtainium alloy, meaning you'll never find any.
This is why many here break down and cry, but also break down and buy the Big Bore kits as they come with new pistons and rings and assorted goodies.
Whether one should use a cylinder hone to cut the glaze offa the cylinder walls before reassembling using the old rings, opinions are divided.
I re-hone... other may not. Personal choice.
You may want to "carefully" remove a ring from each piston, place it down the cylinder and check the ring's end gap to see if it, and the cylinder, is still within operational specs.

[gman]

this is getting a bit scary!! i will split the jugs and then post some pics for some advise on the state of the engine.
loads of help so far and for that i thank you all

Gary

[TomB]

Shappers

You can lead a horse to water

[prometheus578]

"Nothing scarey about it, G Man."

Just stuff that one might want to look at once deep in the bowels of the thing.
(Hhmmm.. that really doesn't paint a nice mental picture.. let me rephrase...)
Once in there, you can check several things if you feel the need.
When I was doin' this sort of work as a way to earn a crown and provide my daily bread there were only three reasons to open up an engine: Leaking head gasket, low compression or burnin' oil.
If your only reason was snapped head bolts(also, a valid reason), then everything else should be ok.
Depends on how much work you'd care to do... above and beyond what was initially called for.

[TucmanXJ]

gman -

What's up? Did you get the cylinder barrels up and off? If so pls give us the grimy details. Enquiring minds want to know.

Rob

[gman]

Hi Rob,
still no joy, have started to break bits off now so it is time to stop !!, i think i will search the UK for another engine, so pi**ed off with it as it was my fault in the first place !!

Gary

[TucmanXJ]

In that event sounds like a replacement spare will be in order. Had an old Suzuki GT750 w/ stuck barrel trbl. It finally came off but at great cost ... methinks the very air turned blue that day.

Rob

[fredintoon]

Hi Gary,
looks like Shapper's shell-cutter tool is your only hope. Can a tool like that be bought someplace or is it strictly a do-it-yourself effort?

[prometheus578]

"I'd like a slice of that, please."

I know the gap is thin where the cylinders meet the case, but if you have room, try using an Xacto Blade or similar modelling knife,and try to wedge it in there and slice the gasket to pieces.
Remember, it's the gasket holding everything together, bonded to both the cylinder and the case.
The whole problem is that when trying to remove the cylinder, you're trying to tear the gasket in half... thickness-wise. Any slices that you make it it can only help you more.

[TomB]

Remember, it's the gasket holding everything together, bonded to both the cylinder and the case.

I've found that its not always the gasket holding everything together. Shappers found the same.

Me and an old mate came up with the Shappers tube saw many years ago, we had a set of barrels stuck solid on a Suzuki GS750, we'd managed to get a very thin hacksaw blade (ground thin on a Jones + Shipman 540 surface grinder) all the way round the gasket so we knew it wasn't that holding the barrels down, the only thing left was it being stuck with road crud onto the barrel studs.

The tube saw worked perfectly, once down to the crankcases with the tube saw on all the studs the barrels lifted away like they were fitted the day before.


Fred
We just made ours out of a piece of Silver Steel (high carbon tool steel) with the right stud size clearance drilled down the middle, then filed the teeth on, heated to cherry red and quenched then tempered to straw/light blue. If you're not sure what you're doing with the heat treatment leave them soft and refile the teeth regularly, its better than breaking off a hardened tooth and having it stuck on the gap

Using it involved a couple of turns then lift away and blow with airline, and so on.



We can only advise people on how we solved a problem like this without resorting to "breaking bits off"

[prometheus578]

I understand what you're saying, Tom.
It's always been the gasket itself, for me.
The problem I run into is in removing the cylinder after the gasket breaks.
Yes, plenty of sand and road grit gets packed around the long studs.
Not much of a problem lifting the cylinder up until it reaches the ends of the studs. (the packed grit just forms a channel around the stud... the cylinder can still move upward)
At the ends of the studs, where the threads are.. that section is flared wider. The 'cement' grit channel will not move past the flared threaded area.
That's where I thought the 'Shapper's Tool" would really be useful.
You very well may be correct. Maybe I've just never had enough road grit packed in there.

[fredintoon]

"Maybe I've just never had enough road grit packed in there"

Hi Prom,
most North American riders ride for the joy of it. When the weather gets nasty they tend to winterize the bike and fire up the Buick.
In Northern Europe folks tend to ride in the worst of weather, through being more stubborn or being less wealthy or a combination of both. This puts their bikes out in bad weather collecting road dirt & muck to a far greater extent than is the North American norm. That's most likely why a Brit or Euro rider can get their barrels cemented on by baked on road crud while a North American rider has never seen it happen.