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  • Electrical assembly

    There's often chatter here on the forum about electrical issues. I thought I'd make a post on this rainy morning about doing it right.

    I was trained as an avionics technician years ago and I've done a lot of that work throughout my career. I'm even NASA trained in soldering. When it comes to electrical assembly, aviation tools are prohibitively expensive. So much so that I've owned very few of my own. Due to my experience, I've made incorrect assumptions about what's available to the do-it-yourselfer. I've been going about it like most of the rest of you.

    At XS Southeast 2014, my bike failed to start for the Saturday morning ride, due to no spark. During troubleshooting, I tugged on a wire at the fuse box and it pulled right out of the flag terminal due to improper crimp technique. I decided to research the problem and find a simple solution.

    I found a flag terminal crimper.



    When you get your new fuse box from TC, he is kind enough to provide you with blue flag terminals. You need four of them. The remaining smaller gauge wires require the red flag terminals.

    What I found for the job was a crimper frame from Pro's Kit. I bought one like this.

    The nice part about this tool is that it will probably satisfy most of my crimping needs. You simply buy the dies for the task you need to perform.


    for insulated flag terminals as in TC's fuse box


    for butt splices and terminals


    for open barrel contacts used on XS1100 connectors


    for uninsulated butt splices and terminals

    Pro's Kit has 35 die options. Sometimes space is a problem and another tool is required. I have one like this.

    Home Depot or your local hardware store has this one.

    A proper wire stripper looks like this.

    When used correctly, this tool won't nick or cut wire strands.

    Anyway, this stuff doesn't cost near as much as I thought it would. Do it once. Do it right.

    Here's a helpful video I found on the subject. It's a far better explanation than I can make.
    How to splice and repair wires, splicing techniques
    Marty (in Mississippi)
    XS1100SG
    XS650SK
    XS650SH
    XS650G
    XS6502F
    XS650E

  • #2
    Hey Marty- I concur with you 100% on the cost of the tools! My second job is a machine electrician, and I've acquired many expensive tools. I have similar die crimpers with various dies, and I like them. However, when I'm doing certain tasks that require multiple pairs of pliers at the same time, changing dies becomes tedious, and I just use different sets of pliers/crimpers.

    The aircraft strippers by Klein you listed are "okay". The Katapults are part of the Journeyman line, and made in China, unlike their original US made tools. Now that Home Depot bought Kline, the tools are all made in China, and the build is definitely inferior. I've bought 10+ sets of aircraft strippers, and found the cheapest and most likable are made by Irwin. $22, and they hold-up well!

    I have great things to say about Knipex, Wiha, and Wera tools, all in my toolbox.
    1979 XS1100F
    2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ian,
      My point here is that you can procure affordable tools to do a proper job working on your bike. The Klein crimper I looked at in Home Depot was made in USA and $30. I found one at Ace Hardware that appears to be of similar quality, made in China for $10. Which one you buy depends more upon how you feel about American workers vs. someone in China earning a daily bowl of fish & rice plus $125 per month. (I probably shouldn't go there) For less than $100, you can be very well equipped to do proper electrical work on your bike. If you're happy doing it with Vice Grips, that's OK too. I put this on here because some folks aren't aware there's any difference.
      Marty (in Mississippi)
      XS1100SG
      XS650SK
      XS650SH
      XS650G
      XS6502F
      XS650E

      Comment


      • #4
        Great info, Marty, as I'm sure most of us have been bitten by electrical gremlins at some point in our XSive lives.

        At XS Southeast 2014, my bike failed to start for the Saturday morning ride, due to no spark.
        I remember that! You were working on the bike in a T-shirt and flip flops, to the untrained eye you looked like a stoner from the 60's. I tried to get Jeff to award you with a "Towelie" award for Least Likely to Lead a Group Out of the Iron Horse On Schedule...but you fixed it and reclaimed Leader of the Pack status, right on!!
        Billy

        1982 XJ1100, Ceramic Coated Headers, Raptor ACCT, Barnett Clutch Springs, Dremmel Fix, TC's Fuse Block, De-Linked S/S Brake Lines, 850 Final Drive, Yahman's YICS Eliminator, Pods, stock jets

        Comment


        • #5
          I had Greg in his pony tail helping me find my way and completing the 60's stoner look.
          Marty (in Mississippi)
          XS1100SG
          XS650SK
          XS650SH
          XS650G
          XS6502F
          XS650E

          Comment


          • #6
            Now what I need to know is if those dies fit into my Ideal Industries Crimpmaster frame. Those dies are way cheaper!
            Last edited by natemoen; 04-06-2015, 03:19 PM.
            Nathan
            KD9ARL

            μολὼν λαβέ

            1978 XS1100E
            K&N Filter
            #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
            OEM Exhaust
            ATK Fork Brace
            LED Dash lights
            Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

            Green Monster Coils
            SS Brake Lines
            Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

            In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

            Theodore Roosevelt

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by natemoen View Post
              Now what I need to know is if those dies fit into my Ideal Industries Crimpmaster frame. Those dies are way cheaper!
              They're made in Taiwan. Wires will no longer pull out of my fuse block and the crimps are pretty.
              Marty (in Mississippi)
              XS1100SG
              XS650SK
              XS650SH
              XS650G
              XS6502F
              XS650E

              Comment


              • #8
                Good thread Marty. I muddle my way through the mechanical stuff ok, learning as I go, but am clueless as to wiring.
                Don't know one terminal style/appropriate tool from another. Unfortunately, I use whatever is floating around in the toolbox that looks like it might connect some wires together.
                Here are the tools I have. Don't really know what I'm looking at or how to use them. I just squeeze when I need to.

                80 SG
                81 SH in parts
                99 ST1100
                91 ST1100

                Comment


                • #9
                  In addition to crimping the wire into the connector I like to solder them in afterwards...no way will it come apart.
                  BTW I too recall you and Greg chasing down the electrical gremlins that a.m.
                  1980 XS650G Special-Two
                  1993 Honda ST1100

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by madmax-im View Post
                    In addition to crimping the wire into the connector I like to solder them in afterwards...no way will it come apart.
                    BTW I too recall you and Greg chasing down the electrical gremlins that a.m.
                    ........and just created what is being avoided.
                    81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by DeanR View Post
                      Good thread Marty. I muddle my way through the mechanical stuff ok, learning as I go, but am clueless as to wiring.
                      Don't know one terminal style/appropriate tool from another. Unfortunately, I use whatever is floating around in the toolbox that looks like it might connect some wires together.
                      Here are the tools I have. Don't really know what I'm looking at or how to use them. I just squeeze when I need to.

                      The tool on top is first quality and used for uninsulated terminals and splices. The bottom one is for emergency repairs only. You'll see it in the video I posted.

                      In addition to crimping the wire into the connector I like to solder them in afterwards...no way will it come apart.
                      As motoman is pointing out, you're giving a broken wire a place to happen.
                      Last edited by jetmechmarty; 04-06-2015, 06:46 PM.
                      Marty (in Mississippi)
                      XS1100SG
                      XS650SK
                      XS650SH
                      XS650G
                      XS6502F
                      XS650E

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Good Video Marty and good information for all and I'd just like to say thanks again for attracting all the attention away from me at the Rally. I had been working on my bike for more than an hour before you came out. Being the showman you are I could play the invisible man and skirt right past the award with out even a dishonorable mention. You make a great wingman, way to jump on the grenade.


                        One note added on making connections on these bikes. Most of the wire used in the XS11 is of a composite that does not work well with most solder. You may find that when you heat these wires they tend to discolor and the solder does not want to weep into the stands even with flux. The solder will make a solid connection but the problem is the wire on the outside of the connection is weakened from the heat and wires will fracture very easily and break. So instead of making a permanent fix you have moved the problem. If the wire is not soft and malleable just use a crimp.
                        To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.

                        Rodan
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
                        1980 G Silverbird
                        Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
                        1198 Overbore kit
                        Grizzly 660 ACCT
                        Barnett Clutch Springs
                        R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
                        122.5 Main Jets
                        ACCT Mod
                        Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
                        Antivibe Bar ends
                        Rear trunk add-on
                        http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm glad I could help, Ron!

                          A good permanent solder joint is difficult to make under any circumstances. Since I know how it's supposed to be done, I almost always opt for the crimp. BTW, that solder wicking up under the insulation is not a good thing. Not to mention the insulation on our wiring leaves a lot to be desired in the first place. In improper solder joint will leave you with a possible short to ground, or a possible fracture as Ron pointed out. If you know how to solder, and can do it better than me, then by all means, have at it. It is a viable option.
                          Marty (in Mississippi)
                          XS1100SG
                          XS650SK
                          XS650SH
                          XS650G
                          XS6502F
                          XS650E

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jetmechmarty View Post
                            I'm glad I could help, Ron!

                            A good permanent solder joint is difficult to make under any circumstances. Since I know how it's supposed to be done, I almost always opt for the crimp. BTW, that solder wicking up under the insulation is not a good thing. Not to mention the insulation on our wiring leaves a lot to be desired in the first place. In improper solder joint will leave you with a possible short to ground, or a possible fracture as Ron pointed out. If you know how to solder, and can do it better than me, then by all means, have at it. It is a viable option.
                            We do a lot of soldering in our shop for circuit boards, wiring, etc. I have one co-worker who was a professional solder-er for General Dynamics for 20 years, and my other co-worker was an avionics technician for the US NAVY for 20 years. Both have said that soldering is to be avoided at all possible costs, as terminal connections have proven to be much more reliable. The NAVY veteran said the USN has pretty much made soldering obsolete. In the pigs of our motors, we either use terminal lugs, or ring terminals and a lock-nut and screw over soldering.
                            1979 XS1100F
                            2H9 Mod, Truck-Lite LED Headlight, TECHNA-FIT S/S Brake Lines, Rear Air Shocks, TKAT Fork Brace, Dyna DC-I Coils, TC Fuse Block, Barnett HD Clutch Springs, Superbike Handlebars, V-Star 650 ACCT, NGK Irridium Plugs, OEM Exhaust. CNC-Cut 2nd Gear Dogs; Ported/Milled Head; Modded Airbox: 8x8 Wix Panel Filter; #137.5 Main Jet, Viper Yellow Paint, Michelin Pilot Activ F/R, Interstate AGM Battery, 14MM MC, Maier Fairing, Cree LED Fog Lights.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jetmechmarty View Post
                              The tool on top is first quality and used for uninsulated terminals and splices.
                              Can I use this 'quality tool' for insulated terminals as well?

                              Also, from the video it seems that as long as heat shrink is used with uninsulated terminals there is really no reason to get the insulated ones?

                              Thanks instructor Marty.
                              80 SG
                              81 SH in parts
                              99 ST1100
                              91 ST1100

                              Comment

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