Motorcycle Deaths Up...

[Cuda 69]

Bedroom police

[Cuda 69]

I always wear a helmet on the road,but I believe it's a choice for adults over 18. and as far as rights,here in N.Y. we lose our rights all the time,seat belts must be worn,any child under age 8 has to be in a booster seat,under 5 i can understand,but 8? what will the chicks think?,no smoking in public places,and now,NYC is trying to pass a law that you can't buy a sugared soft drink over 16 oz in any restarant.come on.We can't talk on a cell phone while driving but I see troopers talking on the phone while playing with there laptops driving in the hammer lane doing 90.

[BA80]

Once again I will reinerate......The greatest safety device you have is between your ears. Remain ACUTELY aware of all that is going on around you.

[crazy steve]

Ok, with the follow-up comments, I see a consensus emerging...

There's a lot of feeling on all sides that these numbers are driven by new/inexperienced, or 'haven't ridden in 20 years' riders; there may be a lot of truth to that. And it is the older riders that seem to be fueling this, more so than the younger riders (I found some raw numbers from the NHTSA that supports that). Another chart I found (8 year history of gas prices) shows that gas prices and motorcycle fatalitities follow nearly the same curve, so the thought that many new riders are after the fuel savings has a lot of merit. But we're still killing a lot of riders...

So maybe the answer is to require helmet use for the first year or two of riding, and at that point make it optional....

[BA80]

The answer is Steve, there is no right answer. Since there is no right answer it must remain a choice.

It's like right handed people trying to tell left handed people the only correct way to write is right handed and vise versa. Depending on which you ask you'll get a corresponding answer.

That is why it must remain a choice. The choice any given individual is most comfortable with.

[trbig]

We here in America have tried to develop a sociaty in which people can have personal possessions and share the resources of this country. Due to differences in geographic areas people have chosen to impliment different laws regulations and requirements so as to keep harmony and allow all equal opportunity to live happy sharring the resources.

It cost me to pay for police to ride the road trying to make people follow these rules and this makes me unhappy so when you fail to follow the rules of sociaty it costs me money therefore I am unhappy and you have infringed on my right to be happy and share resources.

If you ride wheelies at 100 miles an hour in traffic with no shirt shorts and tennis shoes with no helment because you are exercising your rights remember I also have my right as a car owner to drive not having to fear waking up in the middle of the night thinking of the sound of your head popping when I ran over it. I do not care what you do whan you are away from trafic but do not drive like hell in trafic its just asking for it and endangering others. It's kinda like this I have guns but you do not want me shooting in your direction wrecklessly so do not aim a 500 lb 150 mph bike full of gas anywhere around me.

Helments are reguarded as nessisary device on motorcycles ATV's scate boards roller skates and even bicycles because of the consistant nature of the head banging the ground and other things when a misshap occurs. Accidents do happen quite frequent to many people. Therefore be a part of sociaty and consider wearing one so I do not spend more money in taxes to have someone spoon feed you or for the funeral home to deal with you cause your family doesn't care and you have cheap insurance .


Rules are part of sociaty and your rights end where you affect others rights.
If you are out on open roads where your faliure and mistakes do not cause others greif I say be free cause you will more than likely only hurt yourself. If you are in a city or freeway with many other drivers then I think you need to be social and do your part to drive in a manner that is socially acceptable. That way I will be praying that you do not get hurt instead of going to hell for thinking someone should run over the idiot .

I hope all here read this and understand its intended to open eyes and focus on people accepting responsibility for acting responible in public and explore their freedom away from others.

So according to your "logic", since motorcycles have a crash rate at 20 times that of automobiles, you are being irresponsible and enabling others to cause other peoples' rates to go up by doing something inherintly dangerous in public. You should therefore sell your bike and start petitions to ban them completely. Or is it a case of, "Your sin is worse than my sin" judgemental type thing?

[cywelchjr]

Ok, with the follow-up comments, I see a consensus emerging...

There's a lot of feeling on all sides that these numbers are driven by new/inexperienced, or 'haven't ridden in 20 years' riders; there may be a lot of truth to that. And it is the older riders that seem to be fueling this, more so than the younger riders (I found some raw numbers from the NHTSA that supports that). Another chart I found (8 year history of gas prices) shows that gas prices and motorcycle fatalitities follow nearly the same curve, so the thought that many new riders are after the fuel savings has a lot of merit. But we're still killing a lot of riders...

So maybe the answer is to require helmet use for the first year or two of riding, and at that point make it optional....

I think the other point I have noticed over the last 30+ years I've been riding is that the conditions for riders HAVE gotten much worse. Cage drivers have gotten much less attentive to the smaller vehicles and much more impatient and far more likely to do something that will cause YOU to need to perform emergency maneuvers. As was mentioned, cell phones have contributed and in some states they have reacted by doing something about it, as they haven't really increased the fine that much here, but a ticket for talking on a cell phone without hands free or for texting while driving now costs points which can both increase your insurance and potentially lose you your license.

[Elevener]

Be interesting to break the numbers down to what type bikes are involved. My bet is middle aged guys on cruisers,......cough.....harley.

[trbig]

Just more on this one...

If you ride wheelies at 100 miles an hour in traffic with no shirt shorts and tennis shoes with no helment because you are exercising your rights remember I also have my right as a car owner to drive not having to fear waking up in the middle of the night thinking of the sound of your head popping when I ran over it. I do not care what you do whan you are away from trafic but do not drive like hell in trafic its just asking for it and endangering others. It's kinda like this I have guns but you do not want me shooting in your direction wrecklessly so do not aim a 500 lb 150 mph bike full of gas anywhere around me.

Nobody is advocating that it's OK to ride 100-150 mph down the highway. Those people are breaking laws. We are talking about law-abiding citizens riding the speed limits and being able to decide if they want to feel the wind in their hair today. Making a helmet law isn't going to stop those that are already breaking the law.

If you recklessly shoot a gun in someone's direction, you have broken the law. Making yet another law doesn't help when you've already broken the law. Riding 100mph doing wheelies, a helmet is of no use anyway. Despite what Greg said, it doesn't even help contain the gore at that point.

Like I said, you keep saying how non-helmet wearing people are affecting you and your insurance rates (Something else I pointed out that was complete B/S) but then you as a motorcycle rider are already affecting other peoples' rates. It's a hypocricy. Some people WITH helmets, riding the speed limits, unfortunately are still going to pop their heads under someones tire. A helmet won't help that. People shouldn't have to pay to spoon-feed you the rest of your life just because you choose to ride a bike, right?

All this comes down the fact that some have an opinion, and want to force that opinion on others. I've never understood the thought process in this, but it keeps happening in our society. It's the same people that don't like guns, so they think I shouldn't have them, and that by outlawing them, they will magically all go away. But that's a whole 'nuther hot button topic.

[jwhughes3]

Just last Friday in Austin at ROT Rally

Be interesting to break the numbers down to what type bikes are involved. My bet is middle aged guys on cruisers,......cough.....harley.

Older guy (news was unclear if 50 or 62) on a Harley lost control navigating a flyover, hit the rail and sailed over, plunging over 30 feet to his death. Witnesses dont know what made him lose control.


John

[kwats]

This has been a very interesting thread that has reminded me of the continual gridlock of our congress. We have both sides of the issue quoting statistics that further their belief system while both sides blame the behavior of the other for causing their costs to increase.

We have all been affected by the downturn of the economy, some more than others. And, it's easy to play the blame game....But, the truth is we are all responsible for the economic tensions of today.

We are addicted to oil, electronic gadgets of all kinds....we are all members of this website due to our interest in foreign motorcycles. We all contribute to rising costs and job losses every day. Manufacturing has gone away due to our obsession with low cost products.

If we want more of anything it comes at a cost. Unfortunately for us, it comes as more polarization of our people.

[BA80]

What it boils down to kwats is one group believes there should NOT be a personal choice and one group believes that our personal choices should not be taken away.

THAT is what is where the division come in government as well.

There isn't an arguement as to what you SHOULD do, the arguement is WHO should decide what you do. Should it be you or should it be the lawmakers?

[CaptonZap]

Ok, with the follow-up comments, I see a consensus emerging...

So maybe the answer is to require helmet use for the first year or two of riding, and at that point make it optional....

Right, now that has an enforcement fiasco written all over it.
Let's see, maybe an armband issued by the state, (with imbedded micro chips, so as not to be counterfeited) for those over 2 years experience. But wait! Is there a difference between an armband and a helmet?
Since driving is a privilege, if you don't want to pay the premiums to cover un helmeted riders, then forgo the privilege of driving.
This is getting circular, and my head aches. CZ

[BA80]

This is getting circular, and my head aches. CZ

Funny how that always happens with a certain group with like beliefs. I see it in the news every day.

[kwats]

What it boils down to kwats is one group believes there should NOT be a personal choice and one group believes that our personal choices should not be taken away.

THAT is what is where the division come in government as well.

There isn't an arguement as to what you SHOULD do, the arguement is WHO should decide what you do. Should it be you or should it be the lawmakers?

It does point out how different people with a common interest can be, doesn't it?