Motorcycle Deaths Up...

[neJeff]

Do you smoke Jeff? How do you feel about cigarette sales? Think mandating no more smoking would save more lives? How about fatty foods or sugary drinks? Cutting down on heart disease and obesity would save lives…
Where do you draw the line at government interference? *OK, now I’m taking off my Greg hat and going back to work*

Smoked for many years. People who still smoke are idiots with all the data we have on the subject. You want to smoke, go right ahead just don't throw your butt out the window. If you guys want to pay $5.00 a pack then more power to you. It's effectively a helmet law for smokers. The government will let you smoke...just charge the hell out of you for it...but at least you have your "rights"! Where do you draw the line? Hell if I know...just trying to suggest that we try and save frickin' lives in a more high risk activity so we can all enjoy living longer and being safer. Is that what you guys want, the government to let you ride helmetless but charge every rider some kind of "cycle riding tax" that we can't afford?

[BA80]

Smoked for many years. People who still smoke are idiots with all the data we have on the subject. You want to smoke, go right ahead just don't throw your butt out the window. If you guys want to pay $5.00 a pack then more power to you. It's effectively a helmet law for smokers. The government will let you smoke...just charge the hell out of you for it...but at least you have your "rights"! Where do you draw the line? Hell if I know...just trying to suggest that we try and save frickin' lives in a more high risk activity so we can all enjoy living longer and being safer. Is that what you guys want, the government to let you ride helmetless but charge every rider some kind of "cycle riding tax" that we can't afford?

That's my fricken point Jeff. Less Government LETTING people do what they say. The government isn't my keeper. I don't belong to the government, the government belongs to ME. THAT is in the Constitution.

[cywelchjr]

Right, now that has an enforcement fiasco written all over it.
Let's see, maybe an armband issued by the state, (with imbedded micro chips, so as not to be counterfeited) for those over 2 years experience. But wait! Is there a difference between an armband and a helmet?
Since driving is a privilege, if you don't want to pay the premiums to cover un helmeted riders, then forgo the privilege of driving.
This is getting circular, and my head aches. CZ

It could be done with the L plate like in the UK. I think that while that might have some merit, it makes more sense to have the graduated licensing like the UK where riding a smaller bike for a certain number of miles is REQUIRED before being able to move up, and you must both document those miles and retest IIRC. This foolishness of letting any fool who has never ridden go down and buy the fastest bike they can afford makes no sense. In the UK they can buy any bike they want, but anything over a certain size must have a restrictor kit put on it to restrict the HP until the persons license steps up. Not only would the MC market heat up (the used as well as new riders would buy the small bike until they stepped up and then sell it to buy the bigger bike). It makes more sense to me than mandatory helmet and/or gear laws, but as part of the licensing and training process make sure to make the case for the gear.

[cywelchjr]

Smoked for many years. People who still smoke are idiots with all the data we have on the subject. You want to smoke, go right ahead just don't throw your butt out the window. If you guys want to pay $5.00 a pack then more power to you. It's effectively a helmet law for smokers. The government will let you smoke...just charge the hell out of you for it...but at least you have your "rights"! Where do you draw the line? Hell if I know...just trying to suggest that we try and save frickin' lives in a more high risk activity so we can all enjoy living longer and being safer. Is that what you guys want, the government to let you ride helmetless but charge every rider some kind of "cycle riding tax" that we can't afford?

Here is Ca is a case in point of how things can get. No smoking in restaurants, bars or pretty much any normal public places. No smoking anywhere near entrances of buildings and such. There next step is they are working on outlawing smoking in your car or home if you have kids, then it will be your yard if you have neighbors. (the one about the home and car is stuff they are trying to get passed now). So the next thing could be them deciding that the cost of allowing MC riders anywhere but on controlled tracks with complete safety gear and special training and licensing. As steve said, we are pretty much nobody with no power compared to the tobacco industry, and look what they have done to them.

[neJeff]

I guess I just think that if all MC riders would agree to helmets, everywhere, the government would have less reason to bother us. Deaths will go down, ect. I would say most riders use helmets now so it would not be too much of an issue. I would go rather go unnoticed then have the "right" to not use a helmet and catch the ire of alot people who don't like us (riders) anyway.

[crazy steve]

That's my fricken point Jeff. Less Government LETTING people do what they say. The government isn't my keeper. I don't belong to the government, the government belongs to ME. THAT is in the Constitution.

Who says it has to be the government? Again, look at what happened with tobacco and smokers; while the 'govt' put restrictions on use, they stopped short of an outright ban. So now many employers are now refusing to hire smokers, and requiring current employees to quit... and that's legal!

So what are you going to do if you find that medical insurance has exclusions for riding, or a large additional premium is now attached? Or your employer tells you to stop riding or lose your insurance and/or job? Or your life insurance policy won't cover death by motorcycle? Never forget that these things always boil down to money; who's causing the expense, and who has to pay. If the perception is that we're not paying our 'fair share', it will get 'fixed', and not in our favor either....

[BA80]

Who says it has to be the government? Again, look at what happened with tobacco and smokers; while the 'govt' put restrictions on use, they stopped short of an outright ban. So now many employers are now refusing to hire smokers, and requiring current employees to quit... and that's legal!

So what are you going to do if you find that medical insurance has exclusions for riding, or a large additional premium is now attached? Or your employer tells you to stop riding or lose your insurance and/or job? Or your life insurance policy won't cover death by motorcycle? Never forget that these things always boil down to money; who's causing the expense, and who has to pay. If the perception is that we're not paying our 'fair share', it will get 'fixed', and not in our favor either....

Kinda scary ain't it? Who is going to do someting about it if "We The People" don't?

Read my signature and understand it!

[crazy steve]

Kinda scary ain't it? Who is going to do someting about it if "We The People" don't?

It is scary.... We're a small minority, not particularly well-liked by the general population when they bother to think about us at all, and if somebody tells them they can save $5 a year by dumping on us, they'll do it...

I don't think our 3% can sway too many elections....

[BA80]

If you don't think one can make a difference, try to take a nap in a room where there is ONE fly.

[jimbyjimb]

Welp, everything to be said has been. I'm just going to go lay down now and let America de Sade flog my rights away while letting criminals off easy. Night.

[ddragon63]

Here is Ca is a case in point of how things can get. No smoking in restaurants, bars or pretty much any normal public places. No smoking anywhere near entrances of buildings and such. There next step is they are working on outlawing smoking in your car or home if you have kids, then it will be your yard if you have neighbors. (the one about the home and car is stuff they are trying to get passed now). So the next thing could be them deciding that the cost of allowing MC riders anywhere but on controlled tracks with complete safety gear and special training and licensing. As steve said, we are pretty much nobody with no power compared to the tobacco industry, and look what they have done to them.

As Dennis Leary once stated. "whats the smoking law now? You have to smoke in your apartment, under a blanket, with the lights off?!"

if everyone drank purified water and ate organic salads, never drank and used tobacco, the world would be VERY over populated.

I chew, and drink... do I know it bad for me? sure do! is it gonna kill me? possibly.... but I could have some vegan hipster slam into my work truck with his Prius tomorrow, puncture a 180L 350 psi Refrigerated liquid Oxygen Container on my truck which best case just freezes my truck, worst case theres and ignition in the accident and it blows a hole in the pavement where my truck was...

One never knows how they're gonna go for the most part...

Helmet laws, seat belt laws, cell phone laws.... next they will quit putting stereos in cars so we can just concentrate on getting to work to keep producing. I wear a helmet, I wear my seatbelt, and for the most part I don't text and drive... I do it @ stop lights!

Perfect example. My Cousin has this big a$$ Pioneer deck in his jeep that has built in navigation. I'm riding shot-gun and we are headed out of town. I (while seat-belted in of course AND riding shot-gun) can not use the navigation system. you have to have the vehicle in park, and the E-brake set, in order to put in a destination! apparently Pioneer and Car-Toys has decided you should not be able to navigate with your $1000 Nav system while moving. So if your in nowheres-ville looking for a gas station you must pull off the hwy, put it in park and set the flippin E-brake to search for a gas station. Now I can see this on a safety/distraction point.... but COME ON! I'm amazed he can change the radio station with out having the set the E-brake!

OK....I'm getting worked up.... I'll leave you with this thought... "the bigger the government, the smaller the citizen!"

[Hmar]

I'll admit that I ffound this discussion too fascinating to actually read the article, but I want to make some points:
I live in MA, with a helmet law, and much higher car insurance than my neighbor to the south, CT, with no helmet law. Too many other things affect insurance prices to blame helmets/ seat belts for premium prices.
I saw a comment calling hypocrisy for approving cell text bans and not helmet bans, but this is the concept of relative rights. You cannot prove that my helmet use affects others in any meaningful way, but it has been proven time and again that cell phone use while driving does.
I where a full face helmet whenever I get on my bike, it makes sense to me. If you don't I may think you foolish, but that really isn't my concern. I would like to see if riding deaths have increased in the same proportion in states where the laws have not changed either way, but I still consider it academic, as I only feel I have a right to an opinion if it affects me personally, which I have never seen proven. Even smoking bans make more sense to me than helmet ones (I smoke) As my smoke does have some effect on other people in my immediate vicinity.
I also agree that the bikes available now have had an impact on rider accidents/ fatalities, along with all the idiots who make fun of people on smaller bikes. Times have definitely changed from when our bikes were in the running for fastest production bike.
Summary:
Do helmets save lives? I am certain of it
Do I have the right to make you protect your head? I don't believe so

[DGXSER]

We are getting to comparing apples and oranges here. No longer debatng if helmets save lives, or even laughably if they effect insurance rates. this is turning into a civil rights discussion.

Smoking laws, well, as anon-smoker, I love them. Why? because it keeps me out of jail. Why is that? because we have come to the point where common sense and good manners no longer exist, the basic thought out there is "it my right to smoke, and I do not care if it offends you or not, I'm smoking here, don't like it, you go somewhere else, so what if its your home!". instead of folks having the manners to know their smoke offends others and making a point to keep it away from the non-smoking folks, Some almost make a point to blow it at you if you seem offended by it. As Hmar stated, your actions effect others, even if only in the manner of my not liking the smell of the smoke, or making me cough while trying to eat my meal. Since folks can't be civilized about it on their own, we had to pass laws about it. Kind of like the laws about stealing, or murder. If people would behave on their own, we would not need the laws.

Seat belts, wearing one DOES effect others. Keeping your azz planted in that drivers seat when the guano hits the rotisery is important to controlling your vehicle and helping to make sure it does not involve another vehicle or pedestrian. You can't steer and work the controls out of trouble if your not in the seat.

Helmets, all they do is protect your head and brains when the impact occurs. Will not change one bit the outcome as it relates to other drivers and pedestrians. So that one is up to the individual in my book.

Why do we pass laws about helmets, well, why do we give a million to some lady who dumps boiling hot coffee in her lap. We think it is our duty to protect people from themselves if they are not smart enough to do so on their own. My attitude, when my kids were about 3 they were experimenting with all objects liek any kid. I told them not to touch the burning lite bulb, like all three year olds, they did not listen and touched the bulb. They got hurt, they cried. I told them to stop crying, I told them not to touch it, I am not going to listen to them carry on about it. They did not do it again. Some people keep touching the bulb, long as they do not cry and carry on, keep touching.

[BA80]

Why do we pass laws about helmets, well, why do we give a million to some lady who dumps boiling hot coffee in her lap. We think it is our duty to protect people from themselves if they are not smart enough to do so on their own. My attitude, when my kids were about 3 they were experimenting with all objects liek any kid. I told them not to touch the burning lite bulb, like all three year olds, they did not listen and touched the bulb. They got hurt, they cried. I told them to stop crying, I told them not to touch it, I am not going to listen to them carry on about it. They did not do it again. Some people keep touching the bulb, long as they do not cry and carry on, keep touching.

The coffee thing is a perfect example of the courts misiterpretation of the law and not doing thier jobs properly. That should have NOT even made it to court without being thrown out.

[crazy steve]

..why do we give a million to some lady who dumps boiling hot coffee in her lap.

That story has been misrepresented; the truth is much more interesting.

http://www.redgage.com/blogs/illumin...ot-coffee.html

It should also be noted that she wasn't after a big payday, merely the money needed to cover her medical expenses. After being blown off by McDonalds, she hired a lawyer to attempt to recover them. At the end of the trial, the jury was so pissed at McDonalds that they were the ones who slapped them with the big judgement...