Flasher cancelling unit

[MrOzz]

How can you test the reed switch in the speedo to make sure its good?

[crazy steve]

How can you test the reed switch in the speedo to make sure its good?

Just connect a meter across the two wires and spin the front wheel or speedo input; if the meter fluctuates between zero ohms and open, it's good...

[MrOzz]

Just connect a meter across the two wires and spin the front wheel or speedo input; if the meter fluctuates between zero ohms and open, it's good...

Thanks Steve!

[DAVINCI]

An old post by ELDR about this may help...

Check out Post #33:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8642&page=3

[cywelchjr]

Check out Post #33:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8642&page=3

Ok, I can't believe it's as simple as it looks (I'm sure it really is though). It's as simple as adding a normally closed low draw 3 amp 12v relay to the circuit correctly. I'm going down this week and buying a relay and installing it this weekend. Then I buy my LED bulbs for my flashers that I've been putting off .

[DAVINCI]

Cy, I don't know that it actually works, but there it is. You may want to contact ELDR to get the whole scoop.

BTW, my left thumb works every time I use it

[81xsproject]

By a long shot, I don't know as much about electronics as Randy does. But I really don't think that circuit is capable of counting pulses from the reed switch.

[DAVINCI]

You got that right!

[3Phase]

Learned some thing new this morning! Yay!

And I was so wrong!

I thought the O.E.M. flasher was just a fancy, oversized and overpriced thermal make/break type of flasher with a capacitor molded into one end for the self-canceler time/distance calculator circuits.

If I read the reference thread correctly, and there's a good possibility I did not! I think ELDR was saying that the self-cancel feature draws a little less than one amp even when the turn signals are off .

[crazy steve]

...I think ELDR was saying that the self-cancel feature draws a little less than one amp even when the turn signals are off .

Not even one amp; only about 1/4 amp, and you probably lose that through connections elsewhere...

[3Phase]

Not even one amp; only about 1/4 amp, and you probably lose that through connections elsewhere...

Ah, thank you, Steve!

That's still more milliamps than it should use when the signals aren't being used but not as bad as I thought.

[crazy steve]

...But I really don't think that circuit is capable of counting pulses from the reed switch.

Well, for whatever reason he's not showing the reed switch part of the canceller circuit; remember, it's the canceller that reads that, not the flasher.

But there's more going on here than just that. When I still had the hitch/trailer on the '78, I swapped to a 'up-to-8-lamps' electronic flasher. According to what I can find, this supposedly has more-or-less the same internal circuitry as the OEM unit. It was three wire, but I did have to swap two wires at the plug (yellow/green, brown/white) to get the lights to flash, which leads me to think that the Yamaha flasher is non-standard in other ways.

But ELDR also hints that this mod doesn't really change the turn signal load as per his referring to the fact that it's the running lights that are a constant drain and the turns are only intermittent. So I suspect that what he's done is 'shift' the load into the flasher by adjusting the internal values, so that the load the canceller 'sees' is still the same for a net power gain of zero when using the signals, but allowing you to use dual-element LEDs for running lights.

I may be wrong on this, but if this isn't the case, then any three-wire flasher should work and we all know that's not true. Admittedly, my electronics knowledge doesn't stretch this far without a lot of head-scratching...

[cywelchjr]

By a long shot, I don't know as much about electronics as Randy does. But I really don't think that circuit is capable of counting pulses from the reed switch.

It doesn't count the pulses, the cancel unit does, it just reacts to the cancel unit telling it to shut off the turn signals. The stock flasher unit doesn't count the pulses from the reed switch either, it just disables when the auto cancel unit applies 12v to the 3rd pin of the flasher. Being an electronics guy myself, I understood the circuit right away. That circuit should work just fine, either with the transistor or the relay, but the relay is something far easier for the layman to install, so that's what I'm going to attempt and write up (assuming I prove it works). The transistor is what I'd use if I was building units to sell, it being solid state and all. Seeing that circuit, I can also see how both failure modes of the auto canceler happen. One is that the 12v never gets applied, and the other is that 12v is always applied so they cancel as soon as the lever is released (this assumed no wiring problems of course). I'll tell you what though, I'll let you know how it works after I try it this weekend (I figure it will take about 20 minutes to do the mod, even with taking pictures along the way).

[cywelchjr]

Well, for whatever reason he's not showing the reed switch part of the canceller circuit; remember, it's the canceller that reads that, not the flasher.

But there's more going on here than just that. When I still had the hitch/trailer on the '78, I swapped to a 'up-to-8-lamps' electronic flasher. According to what I can find, this supposedly has more-or-less the same internal circuitry as the OEM unit. It was three wire, but I did have to swap two wires at the plug (yellow/green, brown/white) to get the lights to flash, which leads me to think that the Yamaha flasher is non-standard in other ways.

But ELDR also hints that this mod doesn't really change the turn signal load as per his referring to the fact that it's the running lights that are a constant drain and the turns are only intermittent. So I suspect that what he's done is 'shift' the load into the flasher by adjusting the internal values, so that the load the canceller 'sees' is still the same for a net power gain of zero when using the signals, but allowing you to use dual-element LEDs for running lights.

I may be wrong on this, but if this isn't the case, then any three-wire flasher should work and we all know that's not true. Admittedly, my electronics knowledge doesn't stretch this far without a lot of head-scratching...

I think everybody is pointing in the wrong direction. From what I can see, the self cancel circuit doesn't care about the load, only the flasher does, but from what I can see from my understanding of the circuit (it's been a few years since I taught electronics theory so I'm a bit rusty) it looks like it will ONLY cancel on the OFF part of the cycle, and since it will never turn OFF with LEDs because of not enough load, it LOOKS like the canceller needs the load. As a matter of fact, the only time any of the load goes through the cancel circuit, is when the flashers are canceled, the rest of the time, the load all goes through the flasher, 100% (of the bulb load that is, there is some load from the cancel device itself) of that load goes through there. It looks like if you don't do a manual cancel, there is SOME small load all the time, but it looks to be small, and with the circuit that ELDR drew it would depend either on the transistor circuit (which would be milliamps) or the relay used (likely still milliamps). And those 3 prong automotive flashers are not even remotely like the Yamaha flasher. I'll report on my findings, I'm figuring on a mod for those wishing to do it, and BTW, the aussie site this mod is reported as an in-use mod, so I'm pretty sure it works, as at least a couple of them talk of having done it to use LED's and 2 prong flashers.

[crazy steve]

...And those 3 prong automotive flashers are not even remotely like the Yamaha flasher..

I might argue that one with you, as I recall the one I had contained a relay, what looked like a capacitor and some other 'stuff', but no bi-metal strip. But that's neither here nor there...

If you can come up with a way to build a flasher that will flash 'other' loads and retain the cancelling, it'd be great...