trike

[rover]

trike

The hypoid gears in auto rearends are helically cut, there is virtually no friction between the ring and pinion gears, they are constantly in mesh, and cut so as not to ride up as power is applied. Running them in reverse will cause friction, and the gears will tend to pull apart. The whine is there because the gears are rubbing against each other and pushing themselves apart. The only way to overcome this is to find gears that were meant to run in the opposite direction, and to the best of my knowledge, these do not exist. However, any shaft drive cycle with the drive on the right hand side will have the proper shaft rotation. I think all Hondas, including goldwings and the 500 and 650 silverwings drive on that side. If you could find an industrial 90 degree differential with a ratio of 2.5 up to 3.5 to one meant to turn in the right direction. you could mount that rigidly to the frame and have axles of the front drive type with individual suspension. Complicated. Your best bet would be to trade your XS (horrible idea) for a gold or silverwing, or other shaft bike with the drive on the right hand side. I don't know just how much whine there is in a backward running rear end, or how fast it would wear. I do know it has been done. There is a guy in England that did it. Maybe T C could help you find the old post from the early XS.com that tells how to make a reversing unit. Hate to rain on your parade, but facts are facts.

[fredintoon]

is there anything i can do to the rear end to avoid that whine ?? thank you and ride safe ,,slow mo!

Hi slow mo,
you already know what I think you should do but if you must build a trike instead there's my father-in-law's trick to get another 10,000 miles out of his Hillman Minx,
he'd turn off his hearing aid.
Or you could use the other end of whichever small car is your intended axle source and build a foretrike.

[slow mo]

rover //fred

i thought i had the right idea/ costs /how to/problem solved? now all i have is questions,pensive pause, how much was that side car? thank you both for your help ,,ride safe ,,slow mo!

[fredintoon]

3rd way?

The driveshaft of the XS11 turns the opposite direction of any auto I have ever heard of. There are two ways to overcome this. One is to build a reversing box, which someone here did, and posted pictures and instructions on how to do this. The other way is to turn the rear end up side down, but then the helical gears will try to ride up instead of pulling together in mesh, also making that whine you hear in manual shift cars while in reverse. Sidecar or training wheels are the best options.

Hi Rover,
how easy would it be to reverse the engine's rotation?
I can see how re-timing the camshafts would work but messing with the ignition and reversing which way the starter turns is beyond me.
Ideas anyone?

[cywelchjr]

The whine is caused by it running backwards, so IFAIK the only option to avoid the whine is to build a reversing box. Even better would be something that did the reversing but could be shifted out of the line which would give you a reverse gear.

[fredintoon]

i thought i had the right idea/ costs /how to/problem solved? now all i have is questions,pensive pause, how much was that side car? thank you both for your help ,,ride safe ,,slow mo!

Hi slow mo,
here's the link:-
http://toronto.kijiji.ca/f-sidecar-c...earchFormZtrue
The $1,000 Velorex is the one I mentioned.
Below it is a $600 "Easy Rider" that might work too.
Further down someone is offering a Cozy. Nice little chair but way too light and frail for hanging onto an XS11.
There are several Toronto dealers that sell sidecars, you could check with them for something in your price range.

[crazy steve]

Hi Steve,
it ain't car wheels per se that's the problem on trikes, it's the horkin' great fat-tired chromed rims dictated by stylists.
Ordinary normal-sized car tires and rims will work just fine.
I don't see the XS11 rear wheel as being "tailor-made" for a driven axle by a long chalk.
The one good thing is being able to salvage that unobtainable bearing for resale after you've gutted and overbored the hub
but that won't hardly cover the cost of all the necessary machining.

Oh, I dunno if the big wheels/tires are the problem; most use aluminum wheels and low-profile tire which helps get the weight down. I would think a 'regular' wheel/tire would weigh more; I know the 205/60-15 tires on mags weigh less than the OEM 185/70-14 on steel for my wifes sh*tbox...

As far as machining, I never said it would be cheap , but at least you'd have matching wheels...

[cywelchjr]

Oh, I dunno if the big wheels/tires are the problem; most use aluminum wheels and low-profile tire which helps get the weight down. I would think a 'regular' wheel/tire would weigh more; I know the 205/60-15 tires on mags weigh less than the OEM 185/70-14 on steel for my wifes sh*tbox...

As far as machining, I never said it would be cheap , but at least you'd have matching wheels...

I don't know if it's true, but I've read several claims that alloy wheels are actually heavier than the steel ones. Notice that Nascar uses steel wheels, and I've sure that they only use what's lightest for the strength. I've always understood that alloy wheels were actually a little heavier but far stiffer, providing better handling for the price of increased weight.

[crazy steve]

I don't know if it's true, but I've read several claims that alloy wheels are actually heavier than the steel ones. Notice that Nascar uses steel wheels, and I've sure that they only use what's lightest for the strength. I've always understood that alloy wheels were actually a little heavier but far stiffer, providing better handling for the price of increased weight.

An aluminum wheel is lighter than a comparable sized steel wheel almost every time, usually by a lot. NASCAR uses steel for two reasons; one is the fact that nearly all alloy wheels are cast and simply won't take the kind of abuse that their wheels see without breaking unless you go to forged alloy. That brings up the second reason; forged alloy wheels are very expensive, and steel wheels aren't. NASCAR specifies steel as a cost-containment measure as well as a safety issue.

[subike]

Here is a link to a very well written blog on the design and build of trikes.
It is a very long read, but opens you mind to many of the options .
http://www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/bktrikep.htm

[slow mo]

Here is a link to a very well written blog on the design and build of trikes.
It is a very long read, but opens you mind to many of the options .
http://www.btinternet.com/~jhpart/bktrikep.htm

this article is a gift ! thank you subike it will take some time to read but winters coming to the great white north! thanks again ,,ride safe ,,slow mo!

[81xsproject]

SlowMo,
You could avoid all the rear end mess by setting the FRONT up with a two wheel design like the new Can Ams... JAT

[BigDick]

BAM!

Shorten your stock driveshaft, run a jackshaft from the final drive to a carrier bearing (you could modify the swingarm to mount the bearing to it about halfway along), attach a sprocket to said jackshaft, sprocket to whatever rear end (seen a lot of Hardley trikes set up similar) and there's a nice trike.

Comments?
Opinions?
Ridicule?

[fredintoon]

An aluminum wheel is lighter than a comparable sized steel wheel almost every time, usually by a lot. - - -

Hi steve,
Like the Porgie & Bess song sez; "It ain't necessarily so".
The cast aluminum wheels on a 1984 XS650 are a direct swap for the aluminum rimmed wire wheels on a 1975 XS650.
So I did, just for the looks of it.
During the swapover I weighed all the wheels.
Within the accuracy levels of a cheap bathroom scale, the cast wheels and the wire wheels weigh the same.

[crazy steve]

Hi steve,
Like the Porgie & Bess song sez; "It ain't necessarily so".
The cast aluminum wheels on a 1984 XS650 are a direct swap for the aluminum rimmed wire wheels on a 1975 XS650.
So I did, just for the looks of it.
During the swapover I weighed all the wheels.
Within the accuracy levels of a cheap bathroom scale, the cast wheels and the wire wheels weigh the same.

Oh, I'll agree that the difference between cast and laced motorcycle wheels is minimal; generally, the main difference is the weight of the tube the laced wheel requires. Even with a steel rim on a laced wheel, there still isn't much difference, as the metal gauge used on bike rims is much lighter than what you'll find on a car/truck. But I'm comparing bike vs car; there's a big difference between a motorcycle wheel and steel 'disc' car wheel...