Have you heard about Ron Paul?

[t3rmin]

Originally posted by MAXIMAN
The bottom line is Dr. Paul's candidacy is a pipe dream. No matter how much I may agree with him he will not even come close to being elected President for a variety of reasons that are far beyond the scope of this silly little forum.

The odds are very low. But they're lower without you and I. Don't be part of the problem. I'm not sure how else to say it. As you said, we aren't making much of an impact on this silly little forum. Go out and vote for what's right.

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Which leaves us with the age old problem of voting for the lesser of two evils. You might as well accept it. I don't like it any more than you.

I've done that for long enough. Voting for the lesser of evils is still evil. Since they're both evil anyway, what does it matter so much which one we get? Better to do what's right and let God handle the rest.

There is a reason people do not understand our form of government. There is a reason people are clueless regarding the Constitution. It's called government schools...public education. BLAH!

Ron Paul wants to get the federal government out of schools (dismantle the Department of Education). That's a start. On a personal level I think he'd like to go further than that, but it becomes a state/local thing and he won't overstep the bounds of his office.

Having said all that....the only thing I can do is try to mitigate damages. Our system is doomed to failure because of our idiotic "mob rule" approach. My best hope is to out run the impending doom if possible.

I'm through with that. At least while things are falling down around me I can say I did the right thing. Maybe after loosing for a while one of the parties will decide to shape up. Or maybe a new one will arise. Either way, with the status quo it's all headed down the toilet anyway, it's just a question of how soon we arrive.

Finally....Mr. Paul is certainly a strict constitutionalist. And for that I am totally impressed with him. But the one thing he is completely missing the boat on is our enemies abroad. Abraham Lincoln once said if we ever fall it will be from within. The mentality of political correctness and accepting ALL cultures as equal is not only insane but could very well be our unraveling.

Deep down, you do love Dr. Paul! ;-) You're practically parroting one of his talking points! We're so focused on our enemies foreign, we're ignoring enemies domestic. I've heard him mention that very Lincoln quote several times.

What have we gained if we manage to kill every single Muslim (I'm getting the impression that's the only way you'll feel safe...?), but loose our liberty? I don't want to live in that America. The powers that be have leveraged all this fear to foist things like the Patriot Act on us. Whether it's a big conspiracy or just well-meaning fools I'll leave up to you. But this is one of the greatest assaults on freedom we've seen in a long time.

Benjamin Franklin said, "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Our founding fathers were smarter than we give them credit. They anticipated so much of what is happening today, and tried to protect against it with the Constitution. But we're bound and determined to frustrate their efforts. Have you ever read the reason why Congress has the power to declare war, not the president? It's a bigger deal than you think (or I thought). I dug into the Federalist Papers recently and found out, and let me tell you, the wisdom of those guys is astounding.

Here's some fat to chew on. This is what we are up against people. These people want to inavde us and topple us from within. These guys don't want Play Nice. They want you to be their BITCHES:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Thank you all for allowing me to rant.

You'll get no argument from me. Islam is scary stuff. I've seen and agreed with that website long ago.

But we've got to think logically about how best to deal with it. Obviously our current plan isn't working. We are less safe now because of what we're doing. I wrote extensively about that and you haven't challenged it, so I'll assume you see my point.

The thing about Islam is, as you learn more about it, you notice they're quite happy to turn their aggression inward and fight amongst themselves. If they weren't united against us as a common foe, the infighting would resume (Sunni, Shiite, etc.), as it always has. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." Again, look at history.

It won't happen overnight. We'll be paying for the mistakes of the past with these barbarians for a long time. We've severely aggravated them and they won't soon forget. But I simply don't understand this idea that continuing to aggravate them MORE is the answer? What kind of logic is that?

Unless you wipe every Muslim man, woman, and child off the face of the Earth, they won't stop as long as we're over there. Hatred and extremism is the nature of that culture and religion, you've said that yourself. Those are the facts.

To make things worse we're even alienating non-Muslim nations with these policies. We went into Iraq with a bunch of "friends." Where are those "friends" now? We have lost a great deal of world favor. This foreign policy is turning the entire planet against us. THAT IS ISOLATION.

We need to stop meddling because it is isolating us and strengthening our enemies. We'll hit anyone who hits us, and we'll fight to win. But we'll do it smart -- by the Constitution. We'll cultivate friendships and try to repair our tarnished international image so we can emerge from this isolation. We'll SECURE the DARN BORDERS and keep the bad guys out. We'll stop this runaway spending, printing, and borrowing and enjoy prosperity and strength our small-minded enemies can only dream about. We'll trim government to constitutional levels and live free.

That's the only way to win against these bastards -- by doing what America does best: being smart, strong, free, and prosperous. We need to stop following the terrorists' playbook. They like nothing more than an America headed toward oligarchy and Americans "over there", easy to kill.

[t3rmin]

Originally posted by madmax-im


Oh like the old crop neocons were any better?LOL...I am sorry but I dont have this nagging need to believe in some snake oil salesman to come and save me every 4 years because i wasnt smart enough to figure out that they ALL are crooked politicians...in the first place...NO offense to anyone ...but I am NOT gullible...a politician by any other name is still a politician...so pls enough with this Statesman stuff.

This again? I give up. If you aren't willing to put a few minutes into learning about Dr. Paul, please do us the favor of keeping quiet about it. I don't mean to be harsh, but seriously...

You'll notice the folks who have taken the time to learn are debating *issues*. Plenty of people disagree with Dr. Paul, but about his consistent character and principle, few can find any objection.

And if you think I'm anything but the most confirmed cynic, you're mistaken. I don't trust anybody, let along politicians. But I trust Dr. Paul.

[MAXIMAN]

Re: "Maximan, Maximan, Maximan..."

Originally posted by prometheus578

And then, you had to blow it for me by linking to some cartoonish site designed to cater to the lowest common denominator of the emotionally gullible and easily driven.
(Yes, I did laugh at some of the articles on that site, but only because I found their arguements so easy to pick apart and defeat.)

Oh come on PROM! We got keep it interesting...ya know...the way the media does with Brittney Spears!

In closing I would add however...a culture that would execute a young girl for being forceably gang raped ...against here will (as if it were her fault) ...because SHE brought shame to her family...is just messed up. And that attitude is prevalent in most all Muslim nations. How do you deal with that? Negotiate?

[MAXIMAN]

Oh boy oh boy I got an idea!!! Let's start a thread on something really controversial...like thread counts in bed sheets and see how any pages it go.

[planedick]

We forgot how to win a war...

I remember the big war. We went in and bombed the sh*t out of them, then royally kicked their *ss. I don't remember rebuilding their country, of course all the troops there was, and is, a big help as they spend their pay there. I would be much more heavy handed, nuke 'em into submission, and continue until they got the message and bowed down to us. No money for them, no help rebuilding, only more of the same until they come around to our way of thinking. If the news people can show me militants shaking their weapons and crying screw the US, why can't we just "mow 'em down" on the spot. Wouldn't take many such actions and they would get the message. Good thing I'm not president as there would be big holes in the ground where those jerks used to be.

[Jerry]

- Opinion Follows -

Problem with our current form or government is not at the top, its at the bottom.

Redistricting: Both major parties do it to solidify seats in both houses. In some cases, most recently Texas, Republican redistricting added several more Republican seats to the House.

The result is more politicians who don't have to run in the middle to draw from a wide range of constituent's views, therefore have no incentive to represent a wide range of people. You get more and more uncontested seats, and even in those that are contested, often between people of almost identical political beliefs.

The result is the rise of polarizing political figures. G. W. Bush had been the most successful to date in gathering these moribound districts (he lost the popular vote by roughly 500,000 votes in 2000) but he won't be the last.

If people (citizens) were really sincere about changing government we would start by changing the districting process, making it impossible to have 'protected' districts. However, given the process is controlled on a state level, and most people are even less involved with state politics, this is unlikely to happen.

The call for 'change' is a form of populism, and many voters are attracted by it, but the reality is that all the current candidates are products of a districting system on some level, state or local, and are formed by the system (products of the system) rather than reformers of the system.

The answer to the current political situation is not at the federal level. It is at the state, even local, level. We seem to feed the state governments are step-children to the almighty federal government, but this idea should be reversed. The feds should only act where the states cannot, such as natinal defense; the Fed is the servant of the states, not the other way around.

Ron Paul's approach is appealing because it seems to back this approach. Why should the feds be controlling state school curriculum, for example? Nothing in the constitution gives the feds this authority.

The idea that we live in a democracy is wide spread; the truth is the Constitution is more concerned with property rights than it is with citizen rights. While more democratic that many forms of government, it outlines a democratic republic, not a true democracy. In a democratic republic, a few people speak for many, which means the few have the power, not the many. The one concession to the many is that they have the power to choose the few, but with the redistricting schemes, money and influence of special interests, and lack of participation from most of the many, the few who have power are not much bothered by the many.

The result is a federal government mostly removed from regular citizens. Politicians court the few, (delegates) not the many, and thus have little concern, or need, to pay heed to the many except in an indirect way. As long as citizens continue to allow protected districts and life-long politicians, our government will become less and less representative of the many.

[Winterhawk]

And if you think I'm anything but the most confirmed cynic, you're mistaken. I don't trust anybody, let along politicians. But I trust Dr. Paul.

Ron Paul is the only man that can be trusted and is not a member of the BILDERBERG.

They are going to steal another election by bogus electronic code. Many people are in prison as we speak for rigging BU$H's appointment as President. Trouble is Mr. Teflon stays out of jail and the ones who get caught go to jail.

Google Diebold election fraud and look for your selfs.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diebo...x=&startPage=1

We have criminals running our Government. They are all lier's, murderers and thieves.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

[t3rmin]

Re: We forgot how to win a war...

Originally posted by planedick
I remember the big war. We went in and bombed the sh*t out of them, then royally kicked their *ss. I don't remember rebuilding their country, of course all the troops there was, and is, a big help as they spend their pay there. I would be much more heavy handed, nuke 'em into submission, and continue until they got the message and bowed down to us. No money for them, no help rebuilding, only more of the same until they come around to our way of thinking. If the news people can show me militants shaking their weapons and crying screw the US, why can't we just "mow 'em down" on the spot. Wouldn't take many such actions and they would get the message. Good thing I'm not president as there would be big holes in the ground where those jerks used to be.

Darn right. Ron Paul would kick ass when we had to. None of this expensive and unfruitful nation building.

We pay for the bombs to blow up their bridges, then we pay to rebuild their bridges, while our own are falling down. That makes a lot of sense...

[t3rmin]

Originally posted by Jerry
- Opinion Follows -

Problem with our current form or government is not at the top, its at the bottom.

Redistricting: Both major parties do it to solidify seats in both houses. In some cases, most recently Texas, Republican redistricting added several more Republican seats to the House.

Good thoughts.

Did you know part of that redistricting in Texas seemed to be aimed at un-seating Ron Paul? There have been several concerted attempts to beat Dr. Paul out of his seat in Congress. But he keeps winning, and by better margins each time. His constituents love him, and I'm convinced so would we as President.

[Bud Manley]

Originally posted by Winterhawk



Ron Paul is the only man that can be trusted and is not a member of the BILDERBERG.

They are going to steal another election by bogus electronic code. Many people are in prison as we speak for rigging BU$H's appointment as President. Trouble is Mr. Teflon stays out of jail and the ones who get caught go to jail.

Google Diebold election fraud and look for your selfs.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diebo...x=&startPage=1

We have criminals running our Government. They are all lier's, murderers and thieves.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

Is there any possibility at all that the person that gets elected did it because they got the most "real" votes?
If your guy wins is it not a fraud?

[t3rmin]

Originally posted by Winterhawk



Ron Paul is the only man that can be trusted and is not a member of the BILDERBERG.

They are going to steal another election by bogus electronic code. Many people are in prison as we speak for rigging BU$H's appointment as President. Trouble is Mr. Teflon stays out of jail and the ones who get caught go to jail.

Google Diebold election fraud and look for your selfs.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diebo...x=&startPage=1

We have criminals running our Government. They are all lier's, murderers and thieves.


http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/2004votefraud.html

Again, I should note Ron Paul does not necessarily believe any of this stuff. He declined pursuing a re-count in NH, so I'll leave it at that.

[mro]

originally posted by Planedick
I don't remember rebuilding their country

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/marshall/

originally posted by Jerry
but with the redistricting schemes

Redistricting is used to nullify the vote of a population segment of a district to the benefit of the majority political party at the time.
That be but one of the real problems in our political system and one reason why "term limits" has been passed in some areas.
Term limits is not the answer. The whole political system is screwed. It attracts and promotes the WRONG kind of people.

Not going to be any significant changes in government in my life time. Average voter is not truly informed and does not spend the time needed to understand the "issues" or even how the system is used by the politicians for there own benefit.

Short of a calamity of such proportions where the average citizen starts to go hungry nothing is going to change and even then do you think our government will relinquish power as peaceably as the USSR did? Our military have been training to fight in cities and the police have assault weapons available to em.


mro

[prometheus578]

"Reply to Maximan"

How do you deal with that? Negotiate?

I don't deal with it at all. It's not my country, not my religion and not my law, hence, not my concern.
Some countries allow certain things, some countries don't allow certain things.
How they try to control the sexual mores and baser instincts of their people is their business, not ours.
What of our culture, Maximan?
Of course, they would be outraged at what "our sweet young things" are up to, I can imagine, all seemingly done with our blessing.
Is our Britney Spears/Paris Hilton worship responsible for the acts of every young girl with a cell phone camera and a bathroom mirror?
(Caution: extreme content. Only posted to prove a point)
http://pix.jj.am/gallery/main.php
(Now, let's all not do too much research... one might stumble across a niece... or a daughter)
No, this isn't a site where the girls post... this is where the boys post what the girls send them in the chatrooms.
(And you thought your children were just staying up all night playing "World of Warcraft"!)
Muslim laws, such as the wearing of the burka, or laws requiring females to walk in pairs were put in place to control man's lustful desires.
Muslims fathers don't want their daughters to be little Lindsay Lohans.
(I should imagine that this would be a view held by American fathers, too... but I see very little evidence of this.)

Radical laws?
Chopping off the hands of thieves... and the feet of thieves who try to run away, seems to me rather fitting. At least their laws, unlike ours, helps ensure that they have no "career criminals".
Beheadings... "Boo hoo" weep all the bleeding hearts.
(seems rather quick and painless to me.)
In Wa. state the condemned criminal can still decide whether he wants lethal injection, or hanging. (Utah still has the good ol' firing squad)
Of course, there's always ways around the law, like Mr Rupee, who chose hanging. He beat the noose by then becoming morbidly obese, and it would be cruel and unusual punishment if his head popped off when he reached the end of his rope.
No, Maximan, the incident you mention doesn't surprise me... nor does it spur me to the battle cry, "Send in the bombers... blow them all up!"
Some day, someone might not like our "immoral culture" and our constant meddling interference in their affairs and send planes on bombing missions over here.
Whoops... guess I'm a little late on that prediction!

Jerry: good points

[MAXIMAN]

You totally missed the point prom.

the point is not that they do it to their citizens. The point is they want to do it to YOU!!! They want to spread their "mores" to the entire world...by force.

That's why I said are you gong to negotiate with that? Are you going wait until the last minute....wait until they are actually here...cutting off peoples hands...before you do anything about it?

You remind me of the majority of American prior to WW2. Nobody wanted to do a damned thing about Hitler. It was "Europes" problem...not ours. Not a real bright approach...YA THINK?

[MAXIMAN]

Re: "Reply to Maximan"

Originally posted by prometheus578

I don't deal with it at all. It's not my country, not my religion and not my law, hence, not my concern.

Some day, someone might not like our "immoral culture" and our constant meddling interference in their affairs and send planes on bombing missions over here.
Whoops... guess I'm a little late on that prediction!

It wasn't your concern? Until when?

So you think if we just leave them alone ...they'll return the favor?

I used to think you were a logical type...note the past tense "used to".