Wanna Swap Shims?

[trbig]

TC,

Thanks for the Partsnmore info. Maybe they'll give ya a discount for pluggin' em!
What's the difference between the three bond gasket seal and the orange high temp stuff I use on my car? Is this about to get into the "Can I use regular motor oil instead of motorcycle oil" argument?
As for tearing the head off or something major like that, I'll leave that to someone lots more qualified than me. If I start going that far, I will just do a complete motor swap. I am thinking about getting a new timing chain while I am down this far since my cam adjuster is nearly all the way extended. I am a little intimidated by it to be honest. I have a tool to break down my kid's bicycle chains....(Will push out pins so you can then install a master link) anything like the cam chain tool I'd need?
Lastly... I am hoping those little half-moon gaskets you were talking about were 2 Bucks... not 200!!! I don't understand why they didn't just mill the head flat there... but, not for me to question why.
Couldn't find anything but a big torque wrench tonight, will check for an inch pounds one tomorrow. Got my kids more CRAP for their X-Box's though if that helps!!.. lol. Take Care and Thanks again.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

The heads were milled from the side, needed those openings so they could mill the cam bearing base supports!! PNM also sells the cam chain, so you can get up to the $35.00 min. order easily, sorry, yes, $2.00..guess I forgot the "."!

The chain is continuous. You can take a dremmel and grind off the ends of one link to get the old one apart. Run some wire thru the links on both sides of the chain before attempting to separate to keep it from falling down into the crankcase! I know there's a good thread or such on replacing the cam chain here. The new chain come with a link, but it's not a master link design, no sliding "U"clip, you just peen over the ends of the link pins for a permament fitting with the new chain. You just tie/secure the end of the new one onto the old one, and you fish it thru the engine. With the cams OUT, it will actually be easier, since you can rotate the crank without worrying about hitting an open valve, and allow the chain to follow the crank sprocket around, will also allow you to be sure it's ON the crank sprocket prior to reassembly!

As for the sealer, many folks don't recommend the silicone based sealers. I've not used the Three Bond stuff, just Permatex #2 myself! But I don't usually take parts off and on repeatedly, so I don't worry about being able to reuse a gasket, if I tear one up, I just make another!.

I got my low range 0-75 ft /lbs torque wrench, standard bending needle indicator type from Sears for about $25.00 a few years ago!
T.C.

[trbig]

Yeah, Sears is where I went tonight. All they had was a 3/8" foot pound one ($75) But they had an electronic one that you read digitally that fits onto your standard ratchet. Kinda big and bulky looking and costly ($100+) but.. someone's got a good idea. Who knows... maybe Santa will be nice!!

OK.. gotta let the cat outta the bag and ask.... if the silicone sealers are ok for cars..(I know.. you want do not get crazy with it there either.. bad for oil ports and such) why is it not recommended by some for a bike? I don't plan on re-using gaskets either, I just want to make sure the sucker seals the first time I put it on. I have come to find out that the front right of my motor between the head and the valve cover gasket likes to drool just a touch on longer rides... Like a big dog enjoying the ride... Not much... and not a big deal.. but would like to keep that stuff in there doing it's job.

So... you're saying that I won't have to buy some 80 dollar tool for this chain like some of the links in here suggest? No Dremmel tool either.... may try my 4" angle grinder with a cutting blade... try to put something under the chain to catch the metal frags.. and wire the thing up FIRST. Thanks again

Tod

[Pat Kelly]

When I replaced the camchain on SWMBOs XS750 I used my bicycle chainbreaker. The replacement had a master link like a motorcycle chain.

[trbig]

OK.. I gotta ask. I have picked up on all the acronyms except SWMBO... I understand it stands for significant other or wife... but what exactly are the letters for? Seems it would be easier to just type WIFE??? lol.
Off to find a torque wrench and some shims today.

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

SWMBO - She Who Must Be Obeyed.

Like one guy told me years ago concerning wives and arguments.

"You can be right...or you can be happy."

[mro]

Hi ya Tod,

You been using regular motor oil?

In your post:
("Can I use regular motor oil instead of motorcycle oil" argument?)

If you have, how long?
Notice if your clutch slips?

just curious


mro

[Ken Talbot]

Originally posted by trbig
OK.. .. I have picked up on all the acronyms except SWMBO... I Seems it would be easier to just type WIFE???

Sure it would be easier, but it wouldn't tell the full story..

[trbig]

MRO,

No I don't use regular motor oil... but I have read propbably hundreds of pages online of people that do/ don't and have VERY strong opinions of their choice. I think that when I get mine going right, and the carburation right, I may try Rotella T heavy duty since I have read MANY good things about it. There's a pretty good article in Rotella's website about using their oil... specifically it mentions air cooled bikes and declining phosphorous levels in current motor oils... not a good thing for a motorcycle. Anyway.. it's a short page.. worth a read.. http://www.rotella.com/qa/answerresult.php?rowid=169

Now realize that this is just MY personal opinion. Something about... "Views stated here are not necessarily the views of XS.com." blah blah blah... Not trying to start another link or any arguments. Off to smash my plastigages!!

Tod

[trbig]

OK... Got my shims put in, plastigage smashed... if anyone is going by TC's tollerances he wrote... they are .020-.054mm / which equals .0008 <(He forgot a zero.. flustered me a minute) to .0021. I got .0010-.0013 on my intakes. I didn't mess with the exhaust side because well... I just checked and I screwed up. I was thinking the exhaust shim/ cam clearance was .11-.15mm like the intake.. OOPPS!! I need .21-.25, 2 sizes off... so.. I guess I am back to the shim shop tomorrow!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

Sorry about that, , was just copying out of the Clymer's, and we all know they are NEVER wrong! I didn't take the time to check their math! Glad to see yours are within tolerance!! Just hope your one valve that was too tight=no clearance didn't burn the valve/seat causing it to leak? Good luck getting it shimmed up right! Keep at it! Will be curious to hear what your compression levels are after you get it all back together!?
T.C.

[trbig]

Hey TC.

At PartsnMore, they have just the links for the cam chain. I have seen on here and other places that cam chains seldom "Wear out" they just stretch too much. Have you heard of anyone just cutting a link or 2 (or 3?) and puting it back together with the master link? It would be already pre-stretched.. so??
Also, I haven't seen on here... anyone know what the new total un-sprung length of the chain tensioner is? I just got out the caliper, and mine is 3.255" long from outside top of the hole to the end of the pad on the shaft of it. The bike has very few miles on it (6200 now).. so I am still perplexed as to why the cam chain would be stretched out already. Maybe it's that crappy "Motorcycle oil" it's had in it... lol. Man... just tryin to start a fight aint i??

Tod

[mro]

Tod
quote
(you heard of anyone just cutting a link)

Another thread, think it was about cam chain tensioner. had length of new chain and one that had been replaced.

Might be wrong but think when chain stretches 6 to 8 mm its out of adjustment range. Have the valve cover off my 80G right now and looked at the chain, didn't measure a link but think they must be 13 or 14 mm long. remove one link from a stretched chain and it wont go back on.


mro

[trbig]

Hmmmm.. OK.
Not trying to be a tight-wad or anything... just wondering. I had seen another link on here somewhere where the guy said he compared his new one to his old one and it looked to be 2-3 links longer. Maybe 6-8mm before you have to let out your adjuster??? I don't know... just guessing here... lol.

Tod

[mro]

Hey trbig

Maybe 6-8mm before you have to let out your adjuster??? I don't know... just guessing here... lol.

ment no adjustment left

Currently my adjuster is all the way in and the lock bolt is hitting the back of the flat spot on the plunger. Chain is tight, but no adjustment left. (could get a little more by grinding the flat spot to extend the end of plunger, but may not be too good idea)


mro