Wanna Swap Shims?

[trbig]

Hi Everyone.

Just wondering if anyone wants to swap shims. I have 3- 2.75mm shims, and I am needing 2- 2.65's and 1- 2.70mm. I will pay all the postage if you want to swap. Mine are off of an XJ with low miles and are from the intake side, so they are still in good shape. I prefer to do just one swap if anyone has em, but hey... beggars can't be choosy!!

Thank You

Tod

[prometheus578]

Your friendly Yama shop should swap them for free. Most shops do. If they don't, go to Kawa, suzuki, etc. Everybody uses the 29mm shims

[MAXIMAN]

Just be sure ya know what you're getting. I've swapped at the Yamaha shop and when I actually got back to the garage with the shims one turned out to be a 29.5 mm!!! I believe some Zukis use a 29.5.

Yes there are 29 and on half millimeter shims and if you're not careful you can get one in trade.

Tod - Lemme check my shim kit real quick. I think I may have what ya need.

I'll post back in a minute.

[MAXIMAN]

Nope. I've got three 2.70 shims. No 2.60 or 2.65

Sorry...if ya want a swap a 2.70 for 2.75 I can do that. As a matter of fact I could use a 2.75.

[trbig]

Yeah, I checked with my local shop, and they want to swap shims, PLUS 5 bucks to boot! Sounds like I heck of a deal... anybody here wanna make that kind of deal with me??
I have read several links on here.. one for this one (http://www.crc2onlinecatalog.com/valve_shims.htm)
But when I try to add to shoping cart, it just sits there. I plan on calling them next week.
On a seperate note... I was going to make a handy dandy home-made valve hold-back tool... right up until I tried to rotate the engine with the cam adjuster out... I could hear this nice little clicking sound as the chain slipped while I turned the crank and the cams didn't move... Grrrrrrr... ALL KINDS of outta time now. I went ahead and just removed the cams. What is normal wear on a cam bearing on the caps?? I was kinda thinking they should be nice and smooth... not mine. They are grooved somewhat.... especially in the center where the little allen screw on the crank is.... like maybe it didn't get machined just exactly flush. I would send a pic... but don't know how to. Thanks.

Tod

[trbig]

Oops... and Maximan... don't know where in OK you are, but would be happy to swap what you need. Just let me know.

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

Stillwater...I don't need them right now...I just thought if you could use what I had...But it's obvious I don't have whatcha need.

Sorry

[trbig]

Maximan,

I could use the one 2.70mm you have. We could swap that one for my 2.75. Would save me 5 bucks anyway, and could probably send the one shim with just a stamp! ??? Up to you. My exhaust valves seemed right in spec, but my intake were WAY too tight. I really have no way of checking the #1 cylindar. I think it was rubbing the cam all the way around. I can't get the smallest feeler under it. I am going 2 sizes thinner with it (.10mm) and check it again. Wanting to do it right so I won't be messing with it in the riding weather... you know... over 30 degrees!!!
I am going to need the name of a good place for gaskets. Need a valve cover, cam adjuster, and going to do the carbs next. Thanks to everyone.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

I don't recall any allen screws in the "Camshaft" (you had said 'crank' in earlier post?), but there IS an oil lubricating port hole there! The Plastigage Camshaft to bearing cap clearance specification is 0.008- 0.0021 in/0.020 - 0.054mm. Book says to put the plastigage between the cam and bearing cap, reinstall the cam with #1 piston at TDC, cam with dots up, and install all 5 caps complete with washer and nuts and torqued in two stages to specified torque of 7.2 ft/lbs,DO NOT ROTATE CAMS, remove caps and measure the plastigage.

You may have gotten some metallic debris thru the lubrication hole in the cam and it got caught and galled the cam bearing/cap? Some minor grooves are tolerable, however if they are too bad or way out of spec, then you may be looking for a new head since the bearings are part of the head/caps!?
HTH. T.C.

[trbig]

OK... once again, my noobie shows. Everything I was looking at today had oil on it still, so was kinda guessing.
Is there a certain order to puting the CAMS back on... sorry bout the crank statement earlier. The number one cylinder intake valve was under presure... When the #1 is at TDC, some other cylinder is going to be pushing a valve open, any certain tricks to get the cam back down? Start one end and slowly work back? I havent gotten to look close at the cams yet, and haven't seen the "Dots" to turn up, but will look.
The bearing caps are only slightly grooved...more like buffed... mainly in the center. I was just kind of expecting a nice polished surface I guess.
Thank you for your conversion to inches on the plasti gauges. I need to get a good torque wrench tomorrow and find a place for this other stuff... plastigages, gaskets, etc. I have had my torque wrench a while, and I have 2 boys that think any tool makes a good hammer.,.. sigh. My local bike shop turns their nose up at anything older than 5 years... especially if you didn't buy it from them. They are the only ones local... so I guess they can be choosy. After reading that other post.... maybe I will try a Honda shop... NOT!!!!
If all else fails... I just so happened to have aquired a good used motor and tranny for this bike. (OK.. Stole it cheap.. and I feel a little bad, but I still sleep at night!) Came off of an XS... so it's gotta be good right?? lol.
Keep it comin and keep the noobie straight guys!!

Tod

[MAXIMAN]

Tod

Yes I can send the 2.70 I have in trade for a 2.75.

Regarding the #1 intake...you can't get your thinnest feeler in? What is your thinnest feeler gauge. ...and what was the shim thickness in the #1 in bucket?

You may need a 2.55 or less

PS: e-mail me at rocktone@aol.com wiht address.

[trbig]

The smallest set of feeler gages I could find had a .004mm feeler, and no, it wouldn't go. So I was just going by the books chart that says anything .000-.005 go 2 sizes. It was a 2.75 (All the intakes were) that I took out. It may well be that I will end up with something else if the cam was holding pressure on it... but was just going to start there.

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

Okay, so now that the wear on the caps is actually a light buffing, then you're probably okay. My bike had an estimated 50K on it when I tore it down for the big bore....sat outside for 9 years uncovered=lots of rust inside cylinders...pulle the cams, the head, lapped the valves, and put it all back together using assembly grease. Since it was working before it got parked for 9 years due to 1st and 2nd gear malady, I didn't bother doing a plastigage check ! Been working fine for 5 years now, only about 5k miles since rebuild....not a daily, just a fun time ride!

As for the cams, yes, they will be pressing on 1 valve when trying to put them back in. Manual say start in middle and work outward when torquing down, but you can't get the last cap washers and screws on until you slightly tighten the others a bit to push the cam down against the valve enough to make enough clearance of the cap studs to get the washers and nuts started on the cap over the depressing valve!! Then once you've gotten the caps and nuts pressed down to full contact, then you can torque them from center outwards. The caps are numbers 1-5 from left to right, don't mix up! When rotating the crank to TDC, ensure it with the left timing plate, don't want to be out 180, but don't rely on the mark completely, use a straw or such thru the spark plug hole, and slowly rotate the crank back and forth to find the exact TDC point, and notate where that is on the timing mark....may be a few degrees off of the "T" mark? And be careful when postioning the chain, easy to cause the crank to rotate when pulling on the chain! The book states that the dots may not line up exactly straight up, and so a slight rotation is allowed to fit the sprocket bolts on! Once you've got and verified the crank is at TDC, and the cams are dots up, and you've got the first sprocket bolts in place and SNUG...not torqued, you can then rotate the engine...CW only from left side crank, and go ahead and release and retighten the cam chain tensioner so the chain won't have much slack which could cause it to jump teeth when rotating the engine. After putting the second sprocket bolt in, rotate the engine several times and then stop at TDC and reverify the cam dots locations. If off by more that a few mm's, like a whole tooth, then you will need to pull off and reposition. But if aligned properly, then you can do the final torque to 14.5ft/lbs.

You'll want to get a low range, or inch/pound torque wrench anyways....most standard wrenches only start at 10lbs going up to 140...you need much finer measurements...only 7.2lbs MAX for cam cap nuts (clutch springs bolts=7.5), that's 86 inch/pounds fro cam/90inches for clutch!! Aluminum strips easily if overtorqued!!!

And for the budget minded, you can go to the auto parts store, get a roll of gasket material for ~$3.00, and cut out your own. I use a single hole puncher for making the bolt holes, and just traced around with a pen, been recommended to put a light coat of oil on pan, and then press into gasket material to make a pattern....for seeing the INSIDE edge, or you can take a rubber mallet and gently tap the gasket on the inside edge to make a crease that you can later follow with a pen. Use a fine tipped pin to draw the center location of the bolt holes for the covers. If your old gasket isn't actually torn(unlikely ), you can even use it as a template to trace it onto the gasket material!
T.C.

[trbig]

Thank you for all the info TC. I am assuming you meant to get the plastgages out beofre I started doing all this... lol. Not quite understanding why you need to get the bike to TDC before plastigages, but I will do it. What do they mean by torquing in 2 stages... torque say, 5 ft pounds first time... then the 7.2 for the final?
As for the gaskets, I don't mind paying a little for a good gasket, I just didn't know if someone on here had a good online source. If you saw me back in art in school... there would be NO QUESTIONS as to whether I should buy or make them. Always did like to color outside the lines!!!
Thanks again...]

Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tod,

Partsnmore has the valve cover gasket:

FIBRE VALVE COVER GASKET
Fits XS1100 78-81, XS1100L 80-81, XS1100S (79-81) OEM# 2H7-11193-00/10


$8.00US EA.

Part#12-2003

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Aside from this, they have a complete gasket set including head gasket for $77.00! They also sell the Threebond sealant, and their half moon gaskets are only $200 ea! But they do have a $35.00 minimum order limit!!
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BikeBandit:

Clutch cover gasket:14: GASKET, CRCS COVER 22640-001 $11.38
Valve cover gasket:2: GASKET,HD.COVER1 22546-001 $18.66

You can see BikeBandit's prices are a bit steeper, but you can get other individual gaskets using the OEM parts finder. But IF you plan on pulling the head, then you might want to spring for the complete kit from PNM!?

And yes to your other question about torquing in stages. Good Luck.
T.C.