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1979 XS1100F Carb/Diaphragm Issues.

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  • 1979 XS1100F Carb/Diaphragm Issues.

    12,000 miles, no other mechanical issues. Bike sat for years before I acquired it, cleaned it up, etc. Cleaned the carbs. No holes in the diaphragms and they all rise and fall smoothly with applied air pressure (i.e., blowing a little compressed air into the air vents at the front/top of the carbs to make the diagrams rise, etc). Good compression. Stock headers with aftermarket 4 into 2 slash cut silencers with light baffles installed. Stock jetting both main and pilot, 137.5, 42.5.

    I finally got it running ok last year. I bought a OEM air filter for it but could not get it to run right. Anything over 1/4 to 1/3 throttle ran too rich, fouled plugs, etc. I fashioned an air filter element out of light foam and was able to rev the engine even though I'm sure it did not filter the air as well. Overall I would say that the performance was mediocre. It ran weak under 4000 rpm and would often "load up" and act like it wanted to foul plugs. However, if you kept the rpms up it would cruise at highway speeds (5000rpms) just fine.

    This year I took it out after letting it sit for about a month in between start ups. It got about 10 miles down the road and I figured it was warmed up enough. I gave it full throttle and tried to get it to rev above highway speed and promptly fouled plugs (yes, they were black). Got it home and disassembled the carbs; no problems, no blockages, no dirt, dried gas, etc. I reinstalled the carbs, removed the air box so I was able to watch the diaphragms rate of rise and fall. After it was warmed up and could idle on its own, I gave it full throttle to watch the diaphragms. I could be wrong but I was thinking that they did not seem to be Ising at a decent rate according to the amount of throttle and vacuum. In fact #3 seems to barely move at all. Whacking open the throttle and letting it rev to red line or just below did not seem to raise the slides more than 1/4"-3/8" (#3, maybe 1/4" at the most). It seems to me that if the slides are not opening up fully to where they should be corresponding to throttle position and rpm, THAT would account for the anemic performance, fouled plugs and overall rich condition.

    The rubber elements of the diaphragms are soft and flexible. Springs appear to be fine. No visible or discernible leaks, tears or holes of any kind. There appears to be no drag between the slides and walls of the carbs....everything moves smoothly. Question: What would cause the slides/diaphragms to not rise? Would this cause the problem? Am I looking in the right place?

  • #2
    The blackened plugs, of course, point to an overly rich mixture, have you checked the fuel levels?
    Also have you synched the carbs?
    1980 XS1100G "Dolly G" Full Dresser (with a coat of many colors )
    1979 XS1100SF (stock-euro mods planned)
    1984 XV700L Virago (to be hot-modded)
    1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim (semi-restored DD)
    1977 XS650D ( patiently awaiting resto)

    Sometimes it takes a whole tank of gas before you can think straight.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Schming View Post
      The blackened plugs, of course, point to an overly rich mixture, have you checked the fuel levels?
      Also have you synched the carbs?
      Do you mean float levels? Float levels are pretty much spot on, checked this morning. The carbs were synced last year before any of this happened. I'll check it again tomorrow. It could explain #3 not responding very well but would not explain the other slides not rising significantly.

      Comment


      • #4
        You can check the brass floats in almost boiling water for pin holes or by shaking them. If they don't float, you will be running rich.
        2H7 (79) owned since '89
        3H3 owned since '06

        "If it ain't broke, modify it"

        Comment


        • #5
          " It seems to me that if the slides are not opening up fully to where they should be corresponding to throttle position and rpm"

          Ummm.....Lookey here and see wut constant velocity carbs actually do when they's wurking right. (^_^)

          Under Load-



          No Load-



          As far as a quick test to see iffin the slides/diaphrams is ok or not? (O_o)

          Just lift the slides to the top of their travel/limit, at the INTaKE bell cover the long "frowny" hole (like a mouth but NOT smiling....) wit yur thumb, and release the slide. (^_^)

          The slides should stay UP cuz you've blocked the hole they need to draw the air in to drop. (O_O)

          Iffin they pop back down fast you gotta tear in the diaphrams or a bad seal somewheres.... (⇀‸↼‶)

          (Note- Kudos fOaR you iffin you drove yur bike down the road under load/no load and managed to get eyes on wut yur carbs were a doin w/o using a camera. )

          I SECOND checking the fuel levels. Checking the float distance(s) from the carb/gasket body per the repair manual aint the same thang.
          (●´⌓`●)

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          • #6
            Some other possibilities to check. Orifice plugs and that the needle is down in the hole and the tit fits in the spot provided.


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            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DEEBS11 View Post
              Some other possibilities to check. Orifice plugs and that the needle is down in the hole and the tit fits in the spot provided


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              Hi DEEBS11, banzaibob's '79F's carbs shouldn't have the rubber plugs and CMIIW the jet needles should be adjustable with notches and a "C" clip, which could be on a rich position.
              1980 XS1100G "Dolly G" Full Dresser (with a coat of many colors )
              1979 XS1100SF (stock-euro mods planned)
              1984 XV700L Virago (to be hot-modded)
              1983 XJ750MK Midnight Maxim (semi-restored DD)
              1977 XS650D ( patiently awaiting resto)

              Sometimes it takes a whole tank of gas before you can think straight.

              Comment


              • #8
                Copy that. I forgot he said 79.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Larrym View Post
                  " It seems to me that if the slides are not opening up fully to where they should be corresponding to throttle position and rpm"

                  Ummm.....Lookey here and see wut constant velocity carbs actually do when they's wurking right. (^_^)

                  Under Load-



                  No Load-



                  As far as a quick test to see iffin the slides/diaphrams is ok or not? (O_o)

                  Just lift the slides to the top of their travel/limit, at the INTaKE bell cover the long "frowny" hole (like a mouth but NOT smiling....) wit yur thumb, and release the slide. (^_^)

                  The slides should stay UP cuz you've blocked the hole they need to draw the air in to drop. (O_O)

                  Iffin they pop back down fast you gotta tear in the diaphrams or a bad seal somewheres.... (⇀‸↼‶)

                  (Note- Kudos fOaR you iffin you drove yur bike down the road under load/no load and managed to get eyes on wut yur carbs were a doin w/o using a camera. )

                  I SECOND checking the fuel levels. Checking the float distance(s) from the carb/gasket body per the repair manual aint the same thang.
                  (●´⌓`●)

                  Click image for larger version

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ID:	883403

                  Click image for larger version

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Views:	75
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ID:	883404
                  Actually.....my next test was going to be rigging a means to view the carbs under load while going down the road. Thanks for posting those videos, they saved me a day of work and answered the question. I'm going to check synchronization this morning. That might account for #3 not rising at the same rate.

                  All other things being equal, I'm still left with the question of why a stock air filter constricts air flow to the point of the bike running overly rich.

                  As far as the float levels go; the cheap Haynes (or whatever) manual states (from memory) that the float levels is 1.012". It does not specify the measuring points. With the carbs upside down, I assume that it means from the deck of the carb body (not the flange) to the top of the top of the float. Yes/no?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    This company makes good diaphragms. Some work required but a superior product compared to Chinese crap rubber. I use these in my 750 Snow Bike.

                    http://jbmindustries.com/diaphragms.html


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                    Last edited by DEEBS11; 02-26-2025, 08:23 AM. Reason: Note: This is an picture from their older web site. You won't find this picture on the updated web site.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      More on the subject:

                      http://jbmindustries.com/operation_rsd.html

                      Comment


                      • #12

                        Checked the synchronization this morning. It was pretty much spot on. Going to take it for a ride later on WITHOUT the airbox to see. I hate UNI pods....but if that is the quick and easy option I my go for it. I still think something is not quite right though.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          "I assume that it means from the deck of the carb body (not the flange) to the top of the top of the float. Yes/no?"

                          Yup. Frum where's the gasket meets the carb body (but without the gasket actually bein' installed...) to the top-o-the-float. (^_^)

                          Again....that's just measuring and setting the float height(s) to where the manual sez theys s'posed to be. ( •_•)

                          It most certainly A I N ' T an actual real wurld/real time measurement of where the fuel level is in our plane of 3D existence. (☉_☉)

                          THAT's the test that usually gets things mooving in the right direction. (^-^)

                          Results of the diaphram frowny face hole test(s)? (◕‸ ◕)

                          Results of the fuel level test(s)? (≖ ‸ ≖ )

                          I'll wait.... (Θ︹Θ)

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                          Attached Files

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Larrym View Post
                            "I assume that it means from the deck of the carb body (not the flange) to the top of the top of the float. Yes/no?"

                            Yup. Frum where's the gasket meets the carb body (but without the gasket actually bein' installed...) to the top-o-the-float. (^_^)

                            Again....that's just measuring and setting the float height(s) to where the manual sez theys s'posed to be. ( •_•)

                            It most certainly A I N ' T an actual real wurld/real time measurement of where the fuel level is in our plane of 3D existence. (☉_☉)

                            THAT's the test that usually gets things mooving in the right direction. (^-^)

                            Results of the diaphram frowny face hole test(s)? (◕‸ ◕)

                            Results of the fuel level test(s)? (≖ ‸ ≖ )

                            I'll wait.... (Θ︹Θ)

                            Click image for larger version

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Views:	53
Size:	21.0 KB
ID:	883428

                            Float levels are pretty much spot on. The floats appear to be in great shape with no indication of cracks or taking on fluid.

                            Frowny face hole tests were good to go, there appears to be no leaks.

                            Did a 13-15 mile test ride without any airbox. 40 mph, 4th gear, 3000rpm, <10% throttle.....response was better with more low end punch. However at very light throttle apertures it still sort of felt like it was "hunting"....the sensation you get when carbs are still just a little bit out of sync. At highway speeds, 55-65mph it felt stronger but still a bit sketchy on very light throttle apertures. I did a few high speed/full or 3/4 throttle passes and took it up to 80mph (anything higher on local roads is just not safe). At big throttle settings it feels as if it is not quite jetted correctly...not particularly bad, but not quite perfect. I couldn't determine whether it was rich or lean because I didn't have a plug wrench to do a throttle chop. I imagine that if I didn't wack the throttle all the way open it would have performed OK and would give me modest acceleration.

                            So I guess the question is now: What would cause an otherwise stock XS110 (with cheapo MAC or similar slash cut silencers) to not want to run with the stock airbox? Could the crappy silencers be ACTUALLY restricting flow? My experience with most Asian bikes is that changes in exhaust rarely effect anything other than the main jet circuit.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The paper element filters that are available in our style can/seem to be too restrictive. I've had that problem with them. Try to hunt down a K+N somewhere if you're lucky. Unfortunately they don't make them any more.
                              Last edited by bikerphil; 02-26-2025, 09:57 PM.
                              2H7 (79) owned since '89
                              3H3 owned since '06

                              "If it ain't broke, modify it"

                              Comment

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