money vs horsepower/CHAINDRIVE

[pggg]

Still on the same subject, bolting on a rear wheel with, say, a 90mm C/L to sprocket dimension - then 'simply' shimming out the wheels' sprocket with a plate or suchlike, won't be much of an idea because 1. The short strong sprocket studs will need to be replaced with longer, therefore weaker studs.
2. The wheels' drive hub has a shoulder that fits precisely and snugly inside the sprockets' inner circle - that would no longer be the case(unless the plate is a expensive fancy one)
3. And just to be REALLY annoying, the wheels' drive hub has a large bearing inside that is positioned precisely in line with the sprocket and chain. Move the sprocket and the bearing is off line

You know how it is - try to do something that should be bloody simple, and all sorts of niggly obstacles keep cropping up.

[octane]

I'm coming into this a little late, and have not yet converted the swingarm on my XS, but thought I may be able to help with rear rim options as I've done some Suzuki conversions. The early 90's Suzuki's share common cush drive spacing with different rim widths available. All are 17" wheels, but the GS500 (and I think Katana) is 3.5" wide while Bandit 400 wheels are 4" wide and GSX-R's are 4.5". The center hub widths vary as do sprocket carriers, which gives you a good range of options to choose as far as back spacing, etc. My GS500 has a 4" Bandit wheel which allows me to run a 150 series tire instead of the stock 130 on the 3.5" wheel. No tire manufacturers make a sticky radial in 130 - no good for track days!

Maybe that will help out on wheel choice for some other adventurous chain swappers! You can make various wheels work with some later model swingarms by swapping wheel bearings too.

My XS was a freebie, basket case non-runner. It's torn down to frame right now, but I have been comparing late model swingarms for a potential swap. I'm planning to use a 2000 Hayabusa arm. As mentioned earlier, it's narrower than the XS frame by a good bit, but not by an obscene amount. I'll machine stainless steel spacers to take up the gap on the swingarm pivot. May need to make a whole new pivot axle too! Not sure yet...still a ways from getting there.

Hey PGGG...any plans for a fork swap to update the suspension and match wheels?!

[xs650mike]

Originally posted by pggg
This is on a 78E, on a special - I don't know, as the specials frame may have differing dimensions

I seem to remember reading in the Cycle road test of the '79 Special (on this site) that the standard and Special frames are identical.

[John]

I have found some differences in the two different frames. I tried to put some rear footpeg/muffler mounting brackets from a standard on my special, and the dimension between the rear engine mount, and the cut out for the rear brake pivot was quite a bit different.

[xs650mike]

I suppose they meant the main structural members and dimensions not the small bracketry and other details.

[JWSanders]

I'm curious pggg, what kinda 1/4 times do you think you'd get on it now? You'd think it would beat the original by quite a bit, with the extra horsepower and gearing boost...not to mention the wider tire.

[pggg]

You'd probably need a special and standard side by side to be real sure on the frames. Oct, a factory across town made me a 35T sprocket from an old rusty sprocket they'd thrown away. Carved it to shape for 50 bucks. 35T aren't available for the ZX6R, but 40T and over are. Some GSXR's and the TL1000 and a couple of other Kawasakis use the same 520 conversion sprocket. Not all ZX6R sprockets are the same either. No plans on front end ...yet.

BTW, dont rely on 2nd hand parts from a wrecker as being what they're labelled as. The wheel I got had the right dimensions and was labelled as ZXR400. It had no sprocket. Like a dimwit, I brought a new 38T ZXR400 sprocket without checking. Yeah, it didn't fit did it. Discovered the wheel was actually ZX6R. You always hear various 'experts' telling ya this, that, and the other. I was told the 4 1/2" rim was "too small for a 160 or 170" - "put on a 150" So, still being a dimwit, I got a bikeshop to do just that. Yeah, it didn't fit did it. Swapped it for the 160 it should have been from the start.

Anyway JWS, with a 45T sprocket, the gearing would be lower than stock XS11. Can guess what the acceleration would be like. You'd likely cross the line redlining in 5th, but hey, you'd get there quick! Even with a tall 35T, acceleration is damn fast. I've got a new 40T, the factory guy used it as a template. Will try it out sooner or later.

[octane]

Don't feel too bad PGGG. When I did the GSX-R front end swap on my GS5, I bought what were labeled as "2001 GSX-R600 fork tubes and triples" on ebay from a dismantler with a good reputation. It took me another 10 months to save the money and collect the wheel, rotors, axle, and calipers for the 2001 front end. It ended up being a 1999 front end, and unfortunately for me, 2001 was a redesign year and nothing fit. I had to resell and trade everything down for '99 stuff. I broke about even, but it took me another couple of months to get it all together...after I determined what I actually had.

I went through the tire crap too on the rears. I've found you can reasonably go up one size without pinching the profile too badly, but you're best to stick with stock to one size over. Stock on a 4" wheel is 150. I've got a 160 on mine that fits well. It came with the wheel though, I'll go back to a stock 150 when this one gets used up.

[GNEPIG]

.. pggg, you are doing great things here.. i love the looks of the bike also
.. can i make a suggestion on what to do with the space under the back of the seat

.. its zippy tied to the supports under the back. the bag is 8" long and fits perfectly, its good for stashing extra tools, a beer ,smokes or whatever.. and it just looks good!

[pggg]

GNE, I might rig up something like that too. I'm carrying a 24mm wrench under the seat-pan for on-road axle/chain adjustment. But there ain't too much room under there.

[chevy45412001]

ya but

did you have to git one that says Hardly ravidson??????

[pggg]

Hey Chev, after clocking up a fair few miles on this chaindrive now, I've found one niggly thing that can happen with the small 13T front sprocket. When fully gassing the bike from a 5000 - 6000 rev standing start, the chain can skip on the small sprocket for a second or two. Only happens if thrashing the hell out of it from a standing start in 1st gear. 1st gear with a 35T rear is pretty tall - about similar to stock 2nd gear. It's a non issue if riding 'normally'.

I doubt if it'd skip if running a lower geared rear sprocket. I'd rule out using a 12T front though. 13T would be as small as you'd want to have. A 14T or 15T would have to be ideal - you're looking at a few mm's increase in diameter, but the extra tooth or two would surely eliminate any chance of skipping under big stress. Looking thru a sprocket PDF catalogue, all the big modern one litre plus grunters have front sprockets sized from 14T thru to 17T on average.

On the XS11, a 13T is about maximum size for clearance, with a gap of about 2 - 3mm between chain and the front gearbox/crankcase surface. BUT, after checking things closely, I'm pretty sure with some dremelling around the case, you could safely squeeze in a 14T and maybe even a 15T. YEAH! Will check it out some more. Meanwhile, the other day I checked out fuel milage with the chaindrive. I got 16 kilometres to one litre from my last fill-up. That included a bit of thrashing and a bit of cruising. My previous best ever on shaftdrive was 15 K's to the litre on an easy cruise. It was always usually around 13.5 to 14 on average. The chain setup's definitely more economical.

[GNEPIG]

.. chevy, it was FREE, i removed it from a used bike just traded in, i hadn't gotten around to coloring the ugly part out yet .. DON'T buy one of these new from hd, they cost $50 bucks there!

.. pggg, 14t might be a better choice if you can fit it in there safely.. did you notice what sizes[how many teeth] the other bikes were running on the back?
.. the gas milage is great, the best any of my xs11s have ever gotten is 30 mpg

[pggg]

Majority of the road bikes take rears of around the 42T - 47T range as standard. For a 14T front - the XS crankcase is 6mm thick. 13T front has 2mm chain clearance. Diameter difference between 13T and 14T is 4.3mm. 4mm ground off a small point on the crankcase surface would give clearance for the 14T. No way to get clearance for a 15T easily though. Nothing's impossible but you're looking at a bit of a drama to do it

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Pggg,

Okay, 13T has 2mm clearance before hitting crankcase. 14T sprocket is 4.3mm larger in "Diameter".....but only 2.15mm in Radius...distance from center to edge.....so it only would hit the crankcase theoretically 0.15mm into it, so... dremmelling off 2.15mm off of the 6mm thick case would still maintain the 2mm chain to case clearance? Not as bad as you thought, unless I've goofed somewhere in this analysis?

BTW, I've been searching thru sprockets trying to find a 13T, and now possibly a 14T with the same mounting spline pattern as the XS650. I've found a few with larger teeth count, but not the lower counts...but I'm not done searching...YET!! It just amazes me how many different mounting spline patterns were used, in JUST YAMAHA brands.....geez!
T.C.