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**MAXIMAN** · 04-03-2005, 07:58 AM

Boss

Can ya shift through the gears normally? If so the sound you are describing almost sounds like the starter clutch.

If you start the engine and the starter clutch doesn't dis-engage properly it will make a helluva gear grinding sound. If it is a starter clutch the parts aren't expensive but the labor is a bee-otch. Gotta pull the engine and split the cases.

**randy** · 04-03-2005, 08:46 AM

Brandon,

When you spun the rear wheel, the driveshaft didn't spin? It should spin, regardless of the clutch. The rear wheel. driveshaft and middlegear are all mechanically connected.

A couple of guesses, here.

1. Your driveshaft has some splines sheared off (not good)

2. Your driveshaft has snapped (not good but better than #1)

3. You final drive is fried. ( the worst case, but replaceable)

4. Your driveshaft lost it's lock ring inside the u-joint yoke and has worked it's way forward, through the u-joint far enough to disengage the drive shaft from the final drive. (see #1).

In any case, you'll have to remove the final drive to find out what's up .

**TopCatGr58** · 04-03-2005, 09:21 AM

Hey Randy and BossHogg,

After re-reading his description a few times

, it sounds more like his middle gear section has fried. He says he was able to turn the drive shft at the Ujoint, and the rear wheel DID turn, so that eliminates the Final Drive for now. But he said the shaft that goes to the transmission from the Middle Drive/Ujoint area didn't turn. That sounds like a frozen/fried Middle drive that may have gotten the splines broken so that the Engine/tranny can spin, but it spins in the middle gear so not transferring to the Drive Shaft, and all the associated grinding noises in the middle drive.?

I don't remember the events or description of his initial breakdown...whether the rear wheel locked up, or what??

Boss, you'll probably need to pull the middle drive. You say you've already pulled the clutch out. With it out, turning the engine will only spin the crank. You'll need to turn the clutch shaft to transfer the rotations to the Tranny and Middle Gear sections for further diagnostics.

Okay, re-read it again, you said the "Rod" going into the Middle gear/transmission did not turn! The rear wheel can spin, but the U-joint and shaft does not turn!? IF that's so, then like Randy said, a broken drive shaft, or damaged Final Drive Splines. Sorry, but having a little difficulty understanding which parts your describing? You said you grabbed the "bar" under the rubber boot in the Middle Gear/U-joint area. There's not much room to grab much there aside from the U-joint itself. So not sure how you could turn a "bar" which I think is the Drive Shaft WITHOUT turning the U-joint and shaft that goes into the middle gear!?!?

T.C.

**randy** · 04-03-2005, 10:04 AM

Yeah, T.C.

What I thought I read was he spun the wheel and the rod (driveshaft?) didn't turn??

**BossHogg** · 04-03-2005, 12:18 PM

Sorry guys im not to good with lingo and all

when i grabbed the rod thats under the rubber boot behind the middle drive i could spin it but the rear wheel would not turn, i looked at the internals of the engine and had a buddy turn the same rod, the internals moved (im sorry if you cant understand all this but im trying) so i narrowed it down to the final drive, so i finally pulled it off, it was BONE DRY on the inside no grease now the manuel doesnt go into detail on how all this is supposed to look but when i turned the engine over the noise stoped so its got something to do with final drive

What that would be i think is where the final connects to the swing arm i think the splines there are fried like i said there was no grease on it so i think it just got burned up, my question now is was it just because there was no grease how does the wear on these happen and affect it what can i do as far as repairing or replacing, once i fix it how can i go about keeping it from happening again, other than the obvious of greasing it

i appreciate the help guys

**John** · 04-03-2005, 02:22 PM

One last item to check is called the clutch hub. That is the item with the splines that engages the rear wheel. It is also Ken Talbots Avatar. Pull the rear wheel and check the splines on the final drive, and on the wheel. If you should need a clutch hub, or final drive, PM me, I have some available.

**TopCatGr58** · 04-03-2005, 07:09 PM

Hey there Boss,

Inside the rubber boot, that's just a dust seal, it's not a lubrication seal, so that shaft is supposed to be dry. It just bolts up to the 4 point Middle Drive/U-joint part of the middle drive, then it goes back towards the rear wheel. Where the Final Drive bolts onto the Swing arm, those 4 big bolts on the shaft, there is a grease fitting. That gets lubed, but inside the Final Drive there is supposed to be 80-90 wt hypoid gear oil. Was there any sign of oil being spattered against the rear wheel, rim? If so, then you could have developed a leak in the Final Drive assembly, there's a large rubber O-ring gasket that can leak. Also, if the Previous owner didn't put any oil IN the final drive, or it slowly leaked out, then you could have burned it up.

Probably need to remove the rear wheel, and inspect the splines, you'll probably find shards and bits of metal in there!?

Good luck!
T.C.

**BossHogg** · 04-03-2005, 08:56 PM

Sorry again for not being more specific

yeah i just pulled the boot back to see what was going on under the boot, when i saw the oppertunity to test the drive train i grabbed it and turned it the rear wheel still would not move and the sound came from the final so i pulled the wheel off and then the final, and where it connects to the swing arm is where i found the burnt up splines and that was dry and the grease point was filled up with paint so that makes me think nothing on the bike has ever been lubed correctly now i know where the prob is after i replaced the clutch

oh well at least now i know for sure

Thanx for the help everybody

**randy** · 04-04-2005, 04:44 AM

Boss,

The only way to prevent this kind of damage is to grease the parts. I have found, though that the grease fitting on the rear of the swingarm is not quite in the ideal spot to reach the splines, so it would take a whole lot of grease to do the job through the fitting (and hope it gets to the splines).

Any concensus on this out there?

My opinion is that the best way to grease the shaft is to pull the final drive, then there's no doubt.

If you decide to get the final drive unit from john, and you need a drive shaft, let me know i have a spare.

Last, while you've got it all apart, you should re-grease the U-joint. Based on the condition of the shaft, the joint is probably dry too. The joint can be disassembled, and the needle bearings cleaned and greased.

I'm putting together a tutorial on this for my web site, but you know, time is precious. Hopefully I'll get it done in time to help you.

**MAXIMAN** · 04-04-2005, 07:56 AM

Well...I guess my reading skills are on a 3rd grade level. I didn't understand the problem.

My opinion is that the best way to grease the shaft is to pull the final drive, then there's no doubt.

No doubt. One of the best times to do this is everytime you change the rear tire.

**ratbyk** · 04-04-2005, 09:23 AM

MAXIMAN, at the rear of the torque tube, where it couples to the rear end with 4 bolts. If you remove the rear wheel, disconnect the left side shock then these 4 bolts you can drop the rear end out of the bike. At this point you will find the splined end of the drive shaft where it couples into the rear end. This spline is what fails from the lack of grease. After 25 years they just up and give up the ghost. The problem comes from the fact that 1. Lack of greasing regularly over their life time. 2. Where the spline is located it is shielded from the incoming grease.
I recommend that each time you install a new rear tire you drop the rear end out, inspect the splines and re-grease them. Once you have done it once it only takes about 20 minutes to do.
Clear as mud now?
Ken/Sooke

**BossHogg** · 04-04-2005, 10:11 AM

im gana try and get some pic's of it to post to see just how nasty it got.

ihave a question though what puts the pressure on these peices to fail like that i was just going down the road shifted into fith and hit the gas hard and all of a sudden no power

Appreciate the help guys

maybe one day i might help someone hehe

**ratbyk** · 04-04-2005, 01:35 PM

Pressure?

The loading on these splines comes from the engine under power and the back wheel driving them in the opposite direction fighting compression under coast situations. With a lack of grease whether dried out or washed out from water you end up with metal to metal contact. This dry loading will accelerate wear and create excessive heat. The heat will soften the metal in the splines leading to a shearing off of the splines themselves.
With proper, regular greasing metal to metal would never happen and theoretically the splines would last forever.
Preventative maintenance is a wonderful practice in all mechanical components.
Ken/Sooke

**MAXIMAN** · 04-04-2005, 02:03 PM

ratbyk

I'll be sure and do that. I figured it would be wise to grease 'em every tire change. I think I read that in my XJ1100 manual.

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