Fork Seals Fused or What?

[buickyouth]

I'm not sure what I need to be careful of damaging in there, but I have the forks apart and am at the fork seal removal.
The thing wont budge. Should I try and cut the thing out with a blade and peel it? I'm replacing them so I don't need to preserve the old ones.
Is it possible that heat from friction and lack of enough fork oil could cause them to heat up and melt to the inside of the sliders? Or are they just a bear to get out?

[buickyouth]

Do none of you yahoos know anything about these fork seals or what?

I finally got one of the seals out. I fear however that there is another ring underneath the seal that I effed up.
I just want to have some confirmation on what this thing is. I'm pretty sure its not part of the seal. But since the thing is so mangled, its tought to say. One way or another.
Otherwise things are comming along nicely.
Just another 3 hours to get the other seal out and I should be ready to refill the little buggers.

[sidecarKev]

It's hard to believe that those seals are coming out that hard. I dont remember any other sort of ring in there, just a lip or ledge for the seals to sit on. It also doesn't seem to possible that part of the seal was left behind. I would try and get the other one out and then compare or maybe someone here has a set of forks in the same stage as yours that they can snap a pic of.

[TopCatGr58]

No need to get nasty!

Hey there Buick,

You're showing your YOUTH , no need to post a separate thread with that kind of statement!!! I merged it with your previous thread! The title of the REPLY is adequate!

It's the middle of the week, people are working, and most of us HAVEN'T had that kind of trouble getting the old seals out, UNLESS you forgot to remove the "C"-clip/ring that sits on top of the seal. Aside from that, that's it, the seal is just pressed into the lower slider until it stops at that LIP inside the slider.

Correction, just reviewed the fiche, there is a "SPACER" under the seal, so that may be what you've banged up, but hopefully not too badly, so that you could just smooth out any rough surfaces with a file, dremmel, and put the new seal back ontop, it's just a spacer, not a seal!

The seals are made of steel, the slider is aluminum, and with corrosion, they possibly could get joined rather securely!!

Hope this helps?

[buickyouth]

TC,
Sorry about the impatience. Ive been at the second seal for the entire day so far and it still wont budge. I'm almost tempted to take a dremel tool and just grind the stinkin thing out of there altogether.
The first one did end up coming out clean, but this one is rediculous.
Please forgive my tempestuous attitude yesterday. Wasn't meaning to offend anyone. Just needed to vent a bit.
Back to the grindstone. At this rate I should be done in time for next season.
(kidding)

[sidecarKev]

This sounds weird but do you have the upper tubes removed from the lower tubes? Just checking.

[buickyouth]

Yeah. You know what. I think I'll just post some pics of what I've got so far so everyone can see for themselves whats happening exactly.
A pic is worth a thousand words after all.

More later.

[buickyouth]

Welcome to my underground lair

The stuff I took out to get at the seals.


The seal (right) and the unidentified ring that was directly underneath it (left)


They seem to fit together quite snugly


From whence they came. Is that taller ring on the inside the steel spacer that someone was talking about before?


The second seal. Not much headway thus far.


A closer look at the inside with all it's nastacular innards. As you see it goes seal (mangled of course) then the unidentified ring. Then the taller spaceresque thing.


I'm not sure how much good posting these pictures are going to do. At best, maybe someone will see them and be able to enlighten me as to how much of a bonehead I am (which I would completely welcome if it solves the seals). At worst, maybe they will better express the frustration I've been feeling over the past day and a half.

Thanks for keepin' your ears on fellas.

[Czekus21]

I removed mine with a good, small, very sharp, chisel. But you have to be very carefull and very patient, Your messin around with aluminum all around you and it don't take much to render the lower fork tube unserviceable. BUT, the cold chisel will go through the old seal. I noticed in your pics that the edges are kinda torn. You could use a pare of channel lock pliers and peal it out kinda like pealing a banana. Key words to remember. Patience. Patience is a vertue, wanted by many but aquired by few.

[sidecarKev]

Yep I'd say those seals are being a real pain in the ass. Its this kind of stuff that makes you appreciate the bike even more when its done. One thing you have going for you, they should come out easier the next time you do them, as long as you don't wait 25 years.

[buickyouth]

S-U-C-C-E-S-S

So I finally got the second seal out.
After which D.P. Larmee and I did the reassembly.
The new seals were still a bear to get in.
We were scavenging all over for something to slam them down into the sliders. Eventually we found that a one of the cups from a tough-guy bar (doorway chinup bar) fit nicely.
The seals once dabbed with a drop or two of oil were able to be coaxed back in.
The rest of the reassembly was a breeze.
Getting the air/oil caps were a little difficult to thread because of the springs. But once alltogether, I've decided that the bike rides a heap better.

Sidenote:
How much air do you all put into your forks for those of you that have air/oil forks and why?

What device do you use to put the air in / guage.
I used a ball pump with an inline guage, but it seemed pretty inaccurate and lost a lot of air when taking it off and would also lose air while on at a rate of about 1psi / sec.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there BuickYouth,

The seals are not that strong, so trying to pry them up from the edge isn't the way to go. Like Czekus21 said, the trick it to pry them inwards towards the center of the tube, away from the edge! So, either a screwdriver, or chisel, and wedge it against the lip of the seal, and tap/hammer inwards to collapse the ring of the seal away from the edge. Then either use a locking plier, or channel locks, etc., and grab and pry/pull, or lever them out that way! HTH?
T.C.

Well, by the time I typed this, you had gotten it done, and posted your message 2 minutes before me!!

I don't use any extra air in mine, I like a softer ride in the front. If you have lots of weight, fairing, etc., or want a stiffer ride, then you can put some in, max pressure is 36 PSI, so not recommended to use Big Cannister Gas Station pumps, those small pay a quarter ones would be safer, then just air up and then let out to desired level, since they don't hold much volume, it's easy to let out too much!
T.C.

[buickyouth]

Thanks T.C.

Now I've gotta go hit the road!

[bikerhawk]

I'm running around 14 PSI in my forks, holding up a full-dress package and my fat a$$.

Ya gotta be patient sometimes with these old buggers, as you've found out...I've often had to step away, calm down overnight, and then attack it anew tomorrow (like when I couldn't get the cap off a fork tube to, you guessed it, change a seal). It's amazing how much easier it usually goes then!

[buickyouth]

So close, yet so far away...

I just got finished with a little ride to test out the new fork seals. I started with a little under 10psi in each fork.

What I found is that even with the new seals and downtubes I'm still leaking.
I think that I may have damaged one of the seals as I was putting it in.

After getting off the bike and doing the 'lean on it' compression test, the front suspension seems much looser. And after wiping away fork oil I wish I could write off as the lube I used to insert the downtubes for the sixth time, I've concluded that I'm going to have to perform a repeat performance of the past two days. Yee HAW!