Power BAND

[motoman]

I do have synthetic oil. I re-adjusted the clutch as it says here in tech tips maintenance. I have said this before... I think I fixed it!

I took a ride and beat on it and no slip (so far).

Good that there's no clutch slipping......as of yet. As DiverRay stated, I would definitely change oil/filter and go to conventional oil of 20-50w variety of your choice. Fibers of the clutch disc do NOT play well with synthetic oils, as many here have found out over the years.

[Bonz]

I am running Castrol 20w50 full synthetic Motorcycle oil in my 80SG. Not leaks, no slippage, no nothing. What am I doing wrong, do tell?

I did this to show that syn does not make a 38 year old clutch slip, or the gaskets leak from all kinds of places.

1000 miles into this oil change, which includes the Colorado Rally in the crazy heat last summer and the bike/clutch performance is flawless. I have indiscriminately and without shame or worry, switched from syn to dino and back, no issues in any bike, at any time.

I love you guys, but if an oil change to syn makes a clutch slip, it would happen to all bikes, all the time and it simply does not. I know a few guys say it has happened, and I don't doubt them, however it is such a small minority of the hundreds of millions (billions) of miles ridden on all brands of motorcycles the past 100 years that it gets way more play than it ever should.

Run the oil you want, when you want. Moving forward, I will go back to dino oil as the 2500 mile OCI doesn't warrant using synthetic oil. Like 3Phase and others have said, it is the contaminants from an old, loose tolerance air cooled lump that "ruin oil in an XS". Matters not syn or dino, dirty oil is dirt oil.

[TopCatGr58]

Point, Counterpoint

I am running Castrol 20w50 full synthetic Motorcycle oil in my 80SG. Not leaks, no slippage, no nothing. What am I doing wrong, do tell?

I did this to show that syn does not make a 38 year old clutch slip, or the gaskets leak from all kinds of places.

1000 miles into this oil change, which includes the Colorado Rally in the crazy heat last summer and the bike/clutch performance is flawless. I have indiscriminately and without shame or worry, switched from syn to dino and back, no issues in any bike, at any time.

I love you guys, but if an oil change to syn makes a clutch slip, it would happen to all bikes, all the time and it simply does not. I know a few guys say it has happened, and I don't doubt them, however it is such a small minority of the hundreds of millions (billions) of miles ridden on all brands of motorcycles the past 100 years that it gets way more play than it ever should.

Run the oil you want, when you want. Moving forward, I will go back to dino oil as the 2500 mile OCI doesn't warrant using synthetic oil. Like 3Phase and others have said, it is the contaminants from an old, loose tolerance air cooled lump that "ruin oil in an XS". Matters not syn or dino, dirty oil is dirt oil.

Hey Bonz,

Yes, we have seen your posts about full synth and no clutch slip. I don't recall if you have OEM springs or are running Barnett's also, but our consensus is that on a newly acquired XS11 that usually still has the worn out/sprung/compressed OEM springs and possibly less than spec thick frictions, as well as possibly gummed/varnished/burned steels, etc., that using full synth CAN contribute to finally pushing the already weak state clutch over the edge and THEN allow it to slip when it may not have with Dino Oil.

SO...that's our reasoning for our comments regarding the use of FULL SYNTH oils in otherwise old resurrected XS11 engines with STOCK/OEM clutch components and THEN develop clutch slippage that was not there with dino oil. Also, some folks get to try their newly acquired bikes BEFORE they get them into properly tuned condition, and so the clutch didn't slip. Then after full tuneup processes so that the bike is then generating up to it's most capable power limits, it can then put more stress on the worn clutch components, and then the FULL SYNTH pushes it over the edge and allows it slip. Some have switched back to DINO and have reported the loss of the slip, but others still reported slippage, and that's where we then chime in with the need to replace the springs with BARNETTS, as well as recondition the steels, and verify the frictions are within spec, and even clean/degum them as well.

Hey Speed, hopefully your engine will behave, but as we've stated above, there's a good chance that you will eventually need to put in some new springs. We suggest looking at the tech tips about the tranny fix and the extra steel plate(DON'T DO THAT MOD...it was developed BEFORE we learned about the Barnett springs), to learn the techniques for handling the star plate and the bolts WITHOUT breaking off a tip of the plate...it's NO LONGER available from Yamaha!

T.C.

[Bonz]

The 80 SG clutch is 100% stock and original.

Like I said synthetic doesn't make economic sense to run in our engines, I'm not going to do it again I simply did it too make an illustration.

[skids]

I am running Castrol 20w50 full synthetic Motorcycle oil in my 80SG. (snip)

Howard, your clutch must be in good shape. I run blended semisyn since I had issues with Mobil 1 synthetic.

[speedlimit85]

Thanks for the tips. If the clutch eventually needs real work, I may bring it to a Yamaha. I don't have a garage or shop area. I can change the oil in the parking lot. Real repairs I need to know how, and be confident I can finish in a day running again.

I rode a 100 miles today. running great! I just passed 20500 on odometer.

[Bonz]

Yeah, my SG has 24,xxx miles on the odo. Definitely a lower mile unit. The only thing I can think of in synthetic oil that may cause slippage is some motorcycle oils do have some molybdenum. Honda HP4 is one of them and Redline is another. Honda makes a second version with zero moly now because it did cause problems.

If anyone can recall, I would be really interested to know what brand and also vintage of synthetic oil caused slippage for you guys that have had problems. Skids, was it motorcycle Mobil 1? I am considering running the 20w50 M1 motorcycle oil in my ZRX because of the higher zinc and phosphorus that oil contains. It also has very good wear analysis from used oil testing. The ZRX/ZZR1200 has some known cam lobe quality issues from Kawasaki and that can help tremendously in preventing cam lobe pitting.

[skids]

If anyone can recall, I would be really interested to know what brand and also vintage of synthetic oil caused slippage for you guys that have had problems. Skids, was it motorcycle Mobil 1?

No, it was automobile Mobil 1 full synthetic.

[FranksBMW]

It's funny to read oil threads in different motorcycle brand forums as they often end up confrontationally.

[Bonz]

We definitely have our sides of the fence that we will all say has the greenest grass. .

Skids, what weight oil was that?

[skids]

We definitely have our sides of the fence that we will all say has the greenest grass. .

Skids, what weight oil was that?

It was 15w-40 I think.

[Bonz]

Mobil does not make a 15W40 Mobil 1 synthetic oil (automotive)? They do have a 15w50 "automotive" oil. I wonder if that's what it was? I have used the M1 15w50 in my ZRX with very good used oil analysis results in terms of wear. It has 60 ppm of moly based on the analysis, which isn't enough to worry about. I have used Chevron Delo 400 Le 15w40 Dino in the 80SG that has 72 PPM of moly, and no clutch issues.

Mobil does make a 15W40 diesel truck conventional oil, Delvac (ala Rotella 15w40). They also make 5w40 full synthetic diesel truck oil.

In any case, if something makes the clutch slip and changing it for something different makes it go away, then that's proof enough not to use it in that specific bike at that specific time.

[skids]

Mobil does not make a 15W40 Mobil 1 synthetic oil (automotive)? They do have a 15w50 "automotive" oil. I wonder if that's what it was?

This is what I had in the maintenance log:

5/22/96 B 46500 Oil and Filter. Mobil 1 syn 10W40

I probably didn't noticed that it was for diesel engines is that is what it was.

[Bonz]

10w40 makes sense! Definitely an auto oil unless it was the 10w40 Mc specific oil and you would probably know if it was Mc specific from the bottle.

[CJPetersen2000]

Just read through this thread. Speedlimit, are you refering to a "rev-limiter"(power-ban) electronics that prevent your engine from spinning to fast (over- reving) and causing damage? Sounds like you nailed your issue with a clutch adjustment, anyway good job! And if this has turned to an oil thread, I run Rotella T 15/40 in mine and in my '84 FJ1100...I'm currently using Mobil1 15/50 in my "15 KLR 650 (now at 3500mi) but I'm probably switching that to RotellaT on my next change. Watch everything, and enjoy the piss out of it! Charley