Intermittent loss of power
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Greg
Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.
The list changes. -
81H Venturer1100 "The Bentley" (on steroids) 97 Yamaha YZ250(age reducer) 92 Honda ST1100 "Twisty"(touring rocket) Age is relative to the number of seconds counted 'airing' out an 85ft. table-top.Comment
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Well, I really WISH it was the pickup coil wires... That would make it easier to fix! I just took the timing cover off, removed the first clamp on the wires and re-ohm'd the connector. Absolutely no change when firmly pulling on any of the wires (tried each one, individually, from both directions). I also started the bike, and pulled on the wires while it was running, with no effect.
I ohm'd the black wire at the TCI, and got 4 ohms. Re-checked the black/white wire with ignition on, got no volts. Turn the bike on, and got .35V (yes, that's a decimal!).
I put the seat on, and ran it around the block a few times, and the cylinders never dropped out... I think I scared the problem away. I hate intermittent problems!1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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Well, I really WISH it was the pickup coil wires... That would make it easier to fix! I just took the timing cover off, removed the first clamp on the wires and re-ohm'd the connector. Absolutely no change when firmly pulling on any of the wires (tried each one, individually, from both directions). I also started the bike, and pulled on the wires while it was running, with no effect.
I ohm'd the black wire at the TCI, and got 4 ohms. Re-checked the black/white wire with ignition on, got no volts. Turn the bike on, and got .35V (yes, that's a decimal!).
I put the seat on, and ran it around the block a few times, and the cylinders never dropped out... I think I scared the problem away. I hate intermittent problems!
Too bad you don't have a spare 4R0 you could swap out for test purposes. Like I said, I've got a 2H7 I'd let you try but it's not going to do you any good with the 81 ignition. I checked the manuals on the off chance that the testing procedure or voltage readings may be different for the 4R0 than the 2H7 but no joy - same procedures and readings for all years.I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.
'79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake linesComment
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Don't overlook that 4 blade TCI connector, a loose connection in there won't show up on any tests. It took me months to find that weak point on my 79F.2H7 (79) owned since '89
3H3 owned since '06
"If it ain't broke, modify it"
☮Comment
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So, you think I should rebuild the TCI? If the black/white wire's voltage is so far off, how it is still running?1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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And you should probably take Phil's advice too and check that connector. Might be something easy, and personally I like to do the easy stuff first. And with the 11.2v readings at the TCI when the battery is reading 12.6v it might not be a bad idea to check all your connectors for corrosion.
But you're right about intermittent problems - I hate 'em too. Never seem to fail when you want 'em too - like trying to diagnose things. But get too far away from home and... WHAMMO.
Did you check your primary resistance readings on the coils from the TCI, and your secondary resistance readings across the coils? Might not be a bad idea to check those while you're checking stuff.I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.
'79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake linesComment
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The connector is great. I have gone over ALL the connectors on this machine and deOxit'd them, then added a light coat of dielectric grease to each one (except the grounds, where I use anti-seize).
Not sure what you mean by primary and secondary resistance checks though.1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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The connector is great. I have gone over ALL the connectors on this machine and deOxit'd them, then added a light coat of dielectric grease to each one (except the grounds, where I use anti-seize).
Not sure what you mean by primary and secondary resistance checks though.
Then pull the plug wires and put a probe in each spark plug cap for the same coil and take a reading across the coil. Should be 15k ohms plus or minus 20%. Then repeat for the other coil. If you've got 5k resistor caps installed, then you have to bump your readings by 10k ohms - 25k ohms total. If the readings look flakey, remove the caps and measure again. Those resistor caps can wear out so that should help diagnose if you've got a bad cap. You can also test the caps themselves by putting a probe on each end and verifying that they read 5k ohms ea. That's your secondary resistance test.
If they look okay, warm the bike up and allow the coils to heat up, and check the readings again.I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.
'79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake linesComment
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Ok, that'll have to be tomorrow's test. I don't have resistor caps. Iridium plugs have the resistors built-in.1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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My experience is you changer the position of the wires and it went away. TCI problems typically are solid when they come. The wire issue may not be in the flexible part even though that is the main place when you put it back make sure it does not touch the timing wheel.To fix the problem one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed.
Rodan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khm6...liHntN91DHjHiS
1980 G Silverbird
Original Yamaha Fairfing and Bags
1198 Overbore kit
Grizzly 660 ACCT
Barnett Clutch Springs
R1 Clutch Fiber Plates
122.5 Main Jets
ACCT Mod
Mac 4-2 Flare Tips
Antivibe Bar ends
Rear trunk add-on
http://s1184.photobucket.com/albums/z329/viperron1/
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Ok, update from a quick look this morning.
Did the primary resistance test, and for 7 ohms on both. Then, I tried to do the test on the 2&3 coil, and I had a REALLY hard time making a decent contact inside the plug caps! Mind you, these are just metal ends, crimped onto the end of the plug wires, forced into rubber 90º boots. While I wiggled around in the caps, it DID make brief contact, and gave me anywhere from 15K to 20K.
While this initially lead me to point the finger at the ends on the plug wires, I remembered that, in my previous testing, I had swapped the coils, and the problem was traced to the supply of power going TO the coils, not FROM the coils. The connectivity issues in the pug caps makes me want to re-crimp new ends on the wires just to be sure anyway though.1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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Ok, update from a quick look this morning.
Did the primary resistance test, and for 7 ohms on both. Then, I tried to do the test on the 2&3 coil, and I had a REALLY hard time making a decent contact inside the plug caps! Mind you, these are just metal ends, crimped onto the end of the plug wires, forced into rubber 90º boots. While I wiggled around in the caps, it DID make brief contact, and gave me anywhere from 15K to 20K.
While this initially lead me to point the finger at the ends on the plug wires, I remembered that, in my previous testing, I had swapped the coils, and the problem was traced to the supply of power going TO the coils, not FROM the coils. The connectivity issues in the pug caps makes me want to re-crimp new ends on the wires just to be sure anyway though.
20K would be out of spec, but if you're not getting a good contact the reading may not be correct. If you're using an automotive type cap you might get a better reading if you remove the little screw tips from the plugs and put them up inside the connector and make your contact with the hole in the center. Or pull the cap back a bit to expose the connector so you can hold the probe against the side of the connector. JAT
Did you get the same reading on both of them? Did you warm everything up good and try it again with the coils hot?
And just out of curiosity, are you running stock coils or something else?I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.
'79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake linesComment
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The meter shows 0 or 1 when holding the leads together. I get that part. I didn't warm anything up this morning, just ran those quick tests before I left for work.
I'm using Accel coils, which is why the plug ends are just metal terminals crimped onto the ends of the plug wires, and why I am using iridium plugs that have the resistor built-in. The caps are just rubber boots with Harley stamped on them. They are VERY tight, so I can't peel them back at all, but I can easily see the terminals inside the boots. That's why I thought it very troublesome that I couldn't make a decent contact.1980 XS850SG - Sold
1981 XS1100LH Midnight Special (Sold) - purchased 9/29/08
Fully Vetterized and Dynojet Kit added, Heated Grips, Truck-Lite LED headlight, Accel Coils, Irridium plugs, TKAT Fork Brace, XS850LH Final Drive & Black SS Brake lines from Chacal.
Here's my web page devoted to my bike! XS/XJ User's Manuals there, and the XJ1100 Service Manual and both XS1100 Service manuals (free download!).
Whether you think you can, or you think you cannot - You're right.
-H. FordComment
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If you're getting a reading that's 6-7 ohms (actual) that's kind of high. I'd check 'em again right at the primary leads that come off the coils and see if you get a 3 ohm reading. If you do I'd check the continuity of the orange, grey, and red/white from the primary coil connections back to the TCI. Something is adding some resistance there - either in the coil or in the wires. Pay particular attention to the red/white. It runs up through the handlebar kill switch, so motoman might have had something with his suggestion of cleaning the contacts on the kill switch.I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.
'79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake linesComment
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