FD swap copper spacer

[BA80]

Is there some part of the visual I posted you don't understand?

[BA80]

Technically, there is a space between the shoulder stop on the shaft, where the u-joint stops when snapped in with the snap ring, that isn't splined. Just guessing but that looks like about 10MM or so.

[BA80]

I'll tell you what Scott, you keep figuring and the rest of us will keep riding.

Did you ever come up with a formula for building an engine that doesn't burn gallons of oil and will stay together.

[3Phase]

That was sabotage, Greg, not my doing and I really hope it never happens to you or anyone else.

Have fun.

[BA80]

Yes, you said the pictures are of your spacer and driveshaft splines. How did Maximan get here! Did Maximan take the pictures for you or are they his measurements at 50,000 miles? Are they in another thread?

In your pictures I see a driveshaft with a relatively clean copper spacer and a few driveshaft spline contact length measurements that are too long by 7mm but I don't see any 50,000 mile spline peak, land, or valley measurements.

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If you had been paying attention over the last few years you would realize that those pictures were an actual excerpt from Maximans original post of the swap XSChop and he did.

[3Phase]

If you had been paying attention over the last few years you would realize that those pictures were an actual excerpt from Maximans original post of the swap XSChop and he did.

I know you can't add or subtract with your boots on and the picture of your copper spacer looks great but where are your pictures of your 50,000 mile spline land, peak and valley measurements?

I have been paying attention. You've discounted XSChops spline wear limit because Maximan once posted a bunch of pictures with incorrect spline length measurements. You need to get your beer back from your buddy, he's not helping you by holding your beer while you work, he's just drinking your beer.


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[BA80]

The first 2 pics are mine of the spacer on my bike. No, I didn't get anal and have it measured in a laser measuring device, I just posted pics of a pristine part after more miles than most others ever ride their bikes.

Yes, I'm a bad man.

[BA80]

And harder than most too.

[trbig]

Good info there Greg..........well least for those who do the mod. kidding as you know, but here 30-45min. from some serious mountain twisties the stock final and third-fourth gear keep these ole' scoots happy.......and WAY quicker on the straight-line accel.

Brant, the only difference in straightline quickness for the stock FD will be right off the start from a dead stop. After both clutches are fully let out, I'll actually gain on you because I won't shift as often as you'll need to and can stay in the power range longer. Your theory is a myth. But you're happy with your stock FD... that's great. Having put a lot of miles on both, there's absolutely no way I'd go back to stock, and you know I like to go fast, race, do wheelies, etc, and the 850 final drive hasn't held me back at all. Best improvement I've ever done on the bike with absolutely zero negative to report about it... except stick with the type 2 final drives if you're rough at all on 'em. lol.

When Tod stripped the hub at 11,000 feet no one was commenting about how pristine the seal looked and how little wear was evident.

??? What does a stripped hub have to do with my final drive seal or my pristine looking spacer and driveshaft splines after 150k+ miles on this mod? I've tore up hubs, I've tore up final drives, but the driveshaft splines and spacer are still all fine. But you said before real world experience doesn't matter on these things and you don't care what I've tore up if I remember right. I'm just of the opinion that you're arguing and worrying about something that's never been a problem to anyone that's done this mod and you're trying to fix things that ain't broke. But like I said last time.. if it helps you, or anyone else, sleep at night to overbuild things that obviously aren't needed.. whatever floats your boat.

What this boils down to is Greg is posting his results for others that may have wondered, and you're here feeling slighted, trying to defend your mod. My opinion.. You spoke your opinion. You left your link to your fix. Now let others have their say. You don't agree with it. Got it. Noted.

Just my 2 cents.. if worth even that.

[3Phase]

I love real-word information. When does the real world information get here?
"It ain't broke yet an' I ain't dead yet neither!" would make a good reality T.V. show but that's about it.

Greg, I've never used a laser measuring tool either, just calipers and micrometers. Okay, modified driveline parts that should not be worn out really aren't worn out even after 50,000 miles. Bravo! Nice pictures! Meanwhile you've beaten all but the last 7mm of stuffing out of your own straw men and chased your own red herrings completely out of your own net while totally missing Maximan's years-old arithmetic error. O-o-okayfine, put your boots back on now, man!

Tod, I don't feel slighted in the least, it's not my bike and it's not my parts but the arithmetic problem is funny. I have never said that real-world experience doesn't mean anything. The hub on your XJ has nothing to do with Greg's spacer and driveshaft but I used it as one example of yet-another non-contact driveline part that can look great on the surface and can actually be in pristine condition but mask a problem like splines that are about to break off.

What I would be interested in hearing about is your real-world experience with the engine Main and Rod bearings. After I get the cases painted I'll be putting the engine back together with its third crankshaft. The second crankshaft worked for ~90,000 miles but this time I'm trying to use used bearings and I could use your advice! No stupid smilie, no BS, I could use your advice because you're the only one I know that's even tried to do this in the real world and eventually succeeded. I'd like to try and avoid that whole 'eventually' part of the build.

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[Bonz]

The FD swap was the best mod I ever did as well. I cannot tell you guys enough how the lower rpm at 75-80 mph makes it a different bike. Those are the kinds of speeds ridden in this day and age. 55-65 mph is a thing of the past for many folks and this mod brings the bike into the modern age with no mechanical drawbacks. FWIW, I got my 750 FD from Papa November back in 2011 and it already had some miles on it. Everything looked perfect when swapping it to my bike. Even the provided copper spacer was an exact fit after doing the requisite measuring. CZ helped me do the swap before the Durango meet. Many thanks to him for the help on that and lots of other moral support and wisdom since then.

Granted, mine is an SG. I now have basically the same gearing as a Standard, and that is accurate given I resurrected and rode an 80G for awhile with its stock FD for comparison. Run a gear lower and you get the same gearing as the stock FD for all practical purpose. This mod makes the bike more versatile on longer trips and just as spunky everywhere else.

My thought on Brant's Venturer would be raising the gearing with the extra 30 lbs of weight (based on specs I looked up) could slow it down and make it a bit of a slug off the line. With all the years he has under his belt on that bike, that would change the personality he has gotten used to. And Brant does run that bike hard, so the stock gearing is probably golden for him and his bike so he doesn't feel the need to shift as much in the riding he likes to do. I would just run a gear lower with the FD swap but some don't want to do that.

Reality is, the XS has 60-ish ft/lbs of torque at the rear wheel, along with being in the low 80 hp range at the wheel. Dyno charts I have seen bear that out. The engine doesn't get going until 3000-3500 rpm as referenced in every period test I have seen, and is accurate based on my experience. In a 600+ lb bike it is nothing to write home about if you have ridden anything of similar engine size but more modern design. Short gearing, taller gearing it doesn't matter, the XS will get beat in a straight line, roll-on, et al. At that point, being fast overall is about the rider and not the bike, thus gearing is immaterial.

Ok, let the beatings begin...

[BA80]

I've had others who have the stock FD ride my bike and they've said they can't really tell the difference. The 11 was designed as a drag racer for bragging rights, not a cruiser. The swap makes it a cruiser and with the correct tuning and rider it's still a drag racer.

No beatings here Bonz, just drop it down one more gear and freakin' go.

[trbig]

but this time I'm trying to use used bearings and I could use your advice! No stupid smilie, no BS, I could use your advice because you're the only one I know that's even tried to do this in the real world and eventually succeeded.

Every motor I rebuilt got new crank bearings. Not sure where you're getting your info.

I re-use the conrod bearings because I've never seen one with wear (Copper) showing. The first couple motors, I replaced those also, but it just added an extra expense I didn't think it needed.

When does the real world information get here?
"It ain't broke yet an' I ain't dead yet neither!" would make a good reality T.V. show but that's about it.

Better go out and drill your wheels, fit them with rim locks and go back to tubes. Nobody spun the tires on the rims either, but obviously that can't be good enough info for you to go off of. Don't get an auto-tensioner for the cam chain in this case either. Nobody's had problems with those either, but maybe you can figure out a way to make them EXTRA automatic? Nobody having any problems with those shouldn't stop you.

Not sure what could sway your opinion if many, many thousands of miles of real world experience from real world situations with real world pics from lots of different people in the real world... somehow isn't proof or real world information. So I guess I have to ask... Just how many miles do we have to ride, how many people have to do this mod, and how many years does it have to work for you to NOT say, "Well.. it just hasn't broke YET..."? Some how, with you, I'm guessing eternity isn't enough.

I have never said that real-world experience doesn't mean anything.

3Phase: "Seriously! I really don't care how many bikes you've wrecked and parts you've broken..."

OK...

[red bandit]

I did the 750 FD mod to my F shortly after it was posted on here. Thank you who ever you are. I didn't have any MPG change. I get 39 MPG. Down as low as 32 when I crank on it a lot. I have somewhere around 20-30K on the mod. It lowered my RPM 5-600 so at 60 I'm running 3100 RPM. I don't put it in 5th until at least 55. Still has plenty of power to pass. Drop to 3rd to pass fast. Most all of my riding is 60, no freeways around here. About twice a year I make it to a freeway and run 80. I noticed the difference when first starting out when I first did the mod but not shortly after. I don't know why anyone would think the copper spacer would wear. Great mod, haven't looked back.

[trbig]

Thinking more about this today, I have had this same driveline and collar on the bike since I first put the first final drive on and several engines ago. So it's safe to say I've got well over 200k miles on it with no noticeable wear... Yet.