Trying to pinpoint noise?

[clashpistol]

Hi All,

I have been coming to the site from time to time to see what's new. Up to now not for any technical issues recently. I am back again asking for help for hopefully not too severe of a problem.

Getting ready for the season I addressed a number of issues that I hoped would give me a reliable short season here in Buffalo.

I put on new rubber (Shinko HD), S.S brake lines, New rectifier, solenoid, adjusted valves, timed, came chain adj, checked pick-up wires again, tightened/torqued throughout and of course changed oil. I probably had 5,500 miles last season with a few oil changes between for good measure. I had previously did the back cutting transmission fix the year before. It shifted flawlessly. Ran great and had good plug coloration. I felt terrific. All I wanted to do as well was a fork brace. Is the Tkat of your design, manufacturing and sales??
A few thousand miles in this season and I developed an issue and parked it wanting to avoid more damage. When it manifest itself I had to ride about 70 miles to make it home. When I got to my destination I put it on the side stand and it was making a crunching or grinding sound when leaned to the left side(shifter side)in neutral. Riding it home (obviously in gear ) sounded like something was dinging around in the oil pan. At slower speeds almost non-extent. When stood plumb on center stand in neutral it dissipates same with in gear on center stand (I think?)

Here's what I initially performed to try to identify the problem.

1. Removed oil pan to check for grindage and garbage. A miniscule amount fine powdery filings. I then took a pump sprayer and flushed with kerosene and blew out with air.
2. Checked compression which was within specs.
3. Removed clutch cover and basket. Visually checked all and put back together overlooking countershaft bolt at that unfortunately.
4. Removed starter when running
5. I removed shifter cover and inspected all components reinstalled.
6. Drained middle drive and inspected bearing under shifter side chrome cover which looked fine and poured in the proper amount of Stay-Lube gear lube and checked with the dipstick I made from here
I had previously installed a new u-joint at restoration, greased shaft and final drive to wheel drive with moly paste and changed final drive stay-lube to specs. The drive shaft spline looked impeccable. (Doing in neutral as well so not the issue I am sure) Praying after inspection. I crossed my finger and said a prayer. The Gods were not in my favor that day. It still did the exact thing.

I took it apart again today after a few weeks sitting (darn it all). To check the counter shaft bolt torque I researched and found answers in the form.
With a dowel it is hard to determine exactly where noise derives. It is more prominent at the middle gear but I would assume it wouldn't do in neutral? Also sounds perhaps on clutch side but everything looks fine visually (bearings, circlips countershaft bolt torque and the C.S. has no play side to side. As I said the transmission shifts and sounds like a fine watch without the new noise.
Am I perhaps looking at removing middle drive or is there anything you have come across in your knowledge base or experience? If I remove the 7 bolts from the middle drive will it just pull out or must the engine be out and what do I expect to see inside and how does it gear or attach to transmission?
I am looking forward to your reply. Hopefully it less severe than I anticipate and will require not a great deal of time or money to resolve so I can enjoy the rest of the season and eventually the fall leaves.
Thanks in advance,

Jeff outside of Buffalo NY

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jeff,

I moved/copied your post into a NEW THREAD. I understand that you are thinking that it might be the middle drive, but it may not be, and so didn't want it to get lost in that previous middle drive thread.

Folks, I wrote him a PM reply to his PM regarding this subject.

My thoughts are possibly the Cam Chain Tensioner...he said he adjusted it which makes me think he has the OEM unit, and we know how faulty they are and prone to failure. He's already eliminated the Counter Shaft Bolt behind the clutch basket....the one that is prone to loosening after a dremmel gear fix.

Any other thoughts??

T.C.

[BowlingSS]

My noise was cured with an auto cam chain adjuster. Bought used from EBay.

Bill

[3Phase]

Hey, Jeff, how's it going!

Leave the Middle Drive where it is.

What was the "issue" that made you ride home 70 miles where it made grinding noises when you put it on the sidestand?

Was it a noise?
A sudden noise?
A constant noise?
A sudden constant noise?
A constant sudden noise?

Have you tried getting a helper or just leaning it against a wall or something to tilt the engine to the right to find out if it stays quiet; makes the same noise as it does when tilted to the left; makes a different noise?

Is or was the residue in the oil pan metallic or plasticic(sp)?

You've already checked the transmission, the shaft retaining bolt and the assorted retaining clips under the clutch cover so if it's not the gear dogs and slots playing chicken with each other in the transmission, there are only a few things I can think of that would make noise when the engine is tilted but semi-sort-of quiet when vertical and leave residue in the oil pan:

You have an XS11 Special so one of the chromed exhaust header covers may have a screw loose, probably the one for the right-hand exhaust. The cover is vibrating against the exhaust header and the residue in the oil pan is just normal gunk. The noise gets worse when the bike is on the sidestand because the cover can't move away from the header, it's held against it by gravity and plays like a Jamaican steel band.

The cam chain is loose and the residue is plastic from the chain eating the chain guides for a little snack before before it goes out with the rest of its buddies in the valve train.

One of the shaft support end bearings in the engine case is bad and the residue is metallic. Can you, for example, stick a very large screwdriver in the oil filler port and move the clutch basket in and out/ up and down? Trbig had the support bearing behind the clutch go out and it did some serious damage. I don't remember how he described the noise or if it changed with the orientation of the engine and got worse on the sidestand but the pictures were rather spectacular.


For what it's worth, it's totally easy to take the Middle Drive off of the engine but since it can't turn, move or make noise in Neutral it's not likely to be the problem this time around but if you undo all of the bolts it might develop a problem later on. Only one of the four bolts on the chromed bearing housing cover help hold the drive to the case, the other three hold the drive pinion and pinion bearing in the housing and they help set the correct pinion depth, bearing preload and gear contact pattern. The fourth bolt in the cover is the one that has to be removed and it's on the bottom of the cover right next to the one you're not supposed to remove.

.