Carb flooding new member help

[cdavidscee]

Hi guys I finally was able to join the forum after just reading it for several months. I am about ready to burn the bike I am so frustrated!!! I have been messing with carbs since I was a kid and never have I have this kind of trouble. I am having the stuck float flooding issue and have read everything I could find on the web. Watched countless you tube videos and have had the carbs apart like 30-40 times. I have talked to lots of guys and no one yet has been able to come up with anything I have'nt already tried. So here is what I have already done.
1. Thoroughly cleaned the carbs
2. Installed paper filters so no dirt or junk to foil the seat
3. Inspected the needle seat (rubber tip) looks fine, not hard
4. Reset the float level several times, starting with 23 mm and working up to 27
5. Made sure that the floats where straight and not rubbing the gasket or sides of the float bowl.
6. Replaced the o-ring on the needle seat
7. Used a clear line to visually check the fuel level before installing on the bike.
8. I am also having issues with float sticking closed and getting no fuel
9. I have looked closely at the fuel bowl to see if I can see any evidence of interference.
10. I have set the lower limit tang to allow the float to just barely open and progressively set it lower
11. I have buffed the tang that pushes on the float needle so it looks like a mirror.
12 I have ordered new needle valves but have my doughts that will fix it as like I have said the rubber tips seem soft and no rough marks

When I bought the bike (last January (15)) the bike ran and the carbs did not flood (although the previous owner said he had had trouble too) so I have obviously done something to cause this?
When I bought the bike it would not rev over 6k. The privious owner had done many things to try to fix this. I put a Kerker on it and put in a jet kit (117s main, 48 pilot, two shims on needle, cut two rings out of diaphram spring, drilled out the vacuum hole slightly on the slide, all per the kit instructions) this took care of that problem it now pulls like bull all the way to 9k. Any help would be greatly appreciated

[cdavidscee]

Flooding sucks

I read all of the posts on cleaning help needed in Florida by Jeff. I can't believe we are the only guys that have had this problem. Reading the posts I see lots of advise that does not address the float flooding. The only thing I can think of is the vitron tips.

[bikerphil]

Sometimes the float will bind on the float pin itself. I like to take my numbered drill index and find a bit that will just fit thru the float pin hole of the float, then go one increment larger and ream all the crap/gunk out of there which can often cause binding.

[Jeffintampa]

I would check the intakes

I am not a bike mechanic by any means but my intake valves were so tight I could not get a .04 mm feeler in. I think that will confuse the carbs or lots of people that I talked with said valves was some of my problem

[donebysunday]

Flooding Sucks

You have tried many things but you said sometimes flooding, sometimes not getting fuel, yes ?
The needles could be sticking in the float needle seat towers, did you polish these towers ?
Just thinking now, new needles won't hurt, good idea, floats are not soaking up fuel though this would account for the flooding but not the lack of fuel getting into the carbs.
Did you use the tube method to check fuel level ?
Try putting everything back to spec and start anew ?
LUCK !!!!! LUK/let us know please.

[cdavidscee]

Pin reeming

I went and bought pins that were slightly small ID so that they just slide into towers. When I have the bowls off I can blow into the fuel line floats open no problem, flip over floats close completely can't blow through em. Floats seem to have lot's of room in the bowl from side to side. I 'm like Jeff very frustrated.

[cdavidscee]

Seat cleaning

Yah I forgot to mention that. I watched a video on a guy using a Q-tip on a drill with acetone real slow. Seats shine like new, no rough spots. The tips of the vitron do have a little bit of a circle showing. One person mentioned used lacquer cleaner to take a layer of the rubber? That's why I'm buying new ones. But the thing that does not add up for me or Jeff's problem is the more we messed with em the worse the problem got. I'm gonna have to take a real close look at the clearance between the floats and bowl interference. Floats float in gas no problem. Thanks for the help. I would think someone here has had to have had this issue before.

[motoman]

Your issue is the gaskets interfering to the inside....once bowl pinches down on them....take an xacto knife and trim the inside of them WHILE they are in place.....then reset thosethose floats CORRECTLY.....again

[cdavidscee]

Gasket interference

I will trim them next time I take em apart. Like Jeff I need to take a little break before a commit suicide. I looked at the clearance before and it looked like there was a good 1/4 inch between the gasket and the float.

[motoman]

......one change at a time .....moving those fuel levels around from the 3-3.5mm IS futile and will never run right....AMHIK...

[mack]

Needles

I'm surprised 3 phase hasn't chimed in on this one. When I first joined, I had this exact problem. Drove me crazy for three months. I'd done all the same things and trimmed back the bowl gaskets etc. Finally 3 phase told me to get rid of the viton tipped needles and use straight metal ones. Never leaked since. What I've found over the years though is that there are at least three styles of needles and seats. Mikuni needles will work in any seat, but K&L needles are more finiky and like only their matching seat. The metal needles are more forgiving and will seat properly in almost any seat.

[3Phase]

Sorry about that, Mack, been goofing off over on the Vivaldi site.

David, have you flipped the carburetors upside down and put fuel to them? Pressure tested them?

Here's a thread with pictures from Ross when his Rebel Devil was flooding and, yes, Ross has '79 carburetors but that's not important. Click the link or either of the pictures to read the thread:-


the $64,000 question is....



You said you've used plastic tubes to check the fuel level in the float bowls. That's good for the first setting to start the engine but the fuel level check is a dynamic test, it's supposed to be done when the engine is running and the floats are working. This is from the same thread but shows Ross' testing jig:-



.

[cdavidscee]

Read Rebel Devil link

I read the entire thing. I could not find that the flooding issue was ever discovered? He does mention #3 float being bent but it was # 1 that was running rich. Maybe he did not have a float issue at all. His problem seemed to go away after the complete carb clean and re assembly. The mention of using metal float needles is interesting but it seems most XS's are running around just fine using the vitron rubber ones. One You tube video from a tech college said they went to the vitron to cut down on wear in the seat due to vibration. If I do ever figure out the ONE thing that is causing the flooding I will post it in hopes it might help someone else. The advice reguarding sincing, adjusting air /ratio, blocked air vents, coils, etc are all well meaning but none affect the floats. When I get the new needle valves I will double check the alignment of the floats (as that seems it might fit the scenario that Jeff and I had with more fidiling = more flooding) and trim the gaskets back. Thanks to all for your help. The weather is nice it sure would be nice to ride after a 4 month build.

[3Phase]

David,

Before you go all psycho-kitty on the carbs, make sure the fuel is leaking from leaking float needles/seats and not the fuel tees:-
Thread: carb tees


Solid metal float needles vs Viton tips is not really the issue right now.

The point behind pointing you to Ross' thread was for you to be able to see a simple jig for safely testing the carburetors for leaks before you put them on the bike and to keep you from lighting yourself, your XS and possibly your garage and your house on fire. It's obvious that you're using gasoline for all of the leaky-carburetor testing that's frustrating you but you're doing it outdoors with a fire extinguisher handy, right, not in the garage next to the house wall, the dog's bed, a pile of laundry and a bag of old shop rags?

Ross' thread mentioned turning the carburetors upside down, putting fuel to the tees and blipping the floats to let the air out of the lines, then watching for leaks. Did you try that?

The fuel level check with plastic tubes is a dynamic test that's supposed to be done with the engine running, not sitting on a bench. Did you do that or did you make a static check of the fuel levels off the bike?

.

[mack]

vibration

There is no vibration between the needle and seat. Once the engine is running the floats pull the needles up off the shoulders of the seat, they are no longer in contact.even at idle. Scott's point is that you need to put the carbs in a fuel load situation and find the leak location. I may very well be before the needle if the o rings have seen any carb cleaner or ethanol. I have a different set up than reds but the principal is the same.