Gas in the Crankcase/Clutch Problem

[Roadman48]

Hello All,

When I got my 79 XS1100SF out of storage yesterday the crankcase was full of fuel/oil mix. I am taking steps to eliminate this in the future but I also noticed that the clutch level was very soft.

Is this because of the high volume of liquid in the crankcase, damage to the clutch caused by the fuel, or something else? How can I correct this?
Any and all help is appreciated.

Larry

[rdmcguy]

You've got gas !!

Roadman...
What is happening is your petcocks and or float needles are malfunctioning/leaking....DO NOT run it in this condition..Your petcocks are opened by vacuum via the intake spigots on the back of the head in front of carbs...they are not operating correctly...they need to be checked /cleaned/replaced....Also the float needles and or floats themselves need to be examined...when fuel comes in the floats rise or fall as is required ...when these become worn ,damaged or do not close correctly fuel flows into the crankcase area via an open intake valve ...Correct as needed drain all of the oil..including filter....I have had it happen and I take my air compressor and gently blow a little bit of air into the oil filler hole...
Plan on changing oil and filter again after a short interval of time/miles
Good luck

[donebysunday]

Yes what rdmcguy said, need to fix the petcock/s with either parts or a complete rebuild kit. The float needles and seats as well as the float pins allowing easy movement may/most likely need cleaning.
Imagine the slow evaporation of fuel in the bowls and the petcocks not sealing, so drip, drip, now the oxidation build up around the float needle seats prevents the floats from stopping the fuel leakage, excess drains into the crankcase and here you are.
Also as said the 2X oil change should be all you need to get the clutch back to normal. Cheap 15-40 on the first oil change, run under little or no load, then oil of your choice.

Hello All,

When I got my 79 XS1100SF out of storage yesterday the crankcase was full of fuel/oil mix. I am taking steps to eliminate this in the future but I also noticed that the clutch level was very soft.

Is this because of the high volume of liquid in the crankcase, damage to the clutch caused by the fuel, or something else? How can I correct this?
Any and all help is appreciated.

Larry

[Buckmaster79]

Clutch

This happened to me this winter I would strongly get another clutch pack
I had a Barnet pack in mine and the Aviation fuel soften the pads when I went to ride it yes it slipped so I readjusted and tried again and it would not hold
in 5th gear. So I ordered a Barnet set pads,plates and springs and when I took it apart the pads were gone on two clutch plates. So I went to change filter
and it was clean so where did the pads go? I then pulled the pan and and it had two little pieces in it so then I looked up uder the bike at the oil pump pickup
screen and it was all but plugged I am so glad i pulled the pan. I pulled the screen and cleaned it and the pan put it back together and it's running like the animal it always was!

[Radioguylogs]

Yup

The gasoil clutch friction-plate damage from my basket case:

[Bonz]

Larry, you don't need a new clutch! Unless it was already on its last legs and needed replacement, hundreds and hundreds of thousands of motorcycles over the history of riding have had fuel get in the crankcase from this same problem, and not needed a new clutch. Maybe if the clutch is abused with thinned oil before the issue was discovered?

And what would be in Av gas that would soften the friction plate material? That looks like rust on the plates.

Help me understand this issue...

[Rasputin]

The gasoil clutch friction-plate damage from my basket case:

Never seen that myself. I have had gas/oil issues many times but never had a problem with clutch pads delineating. I have always just changed the motor oil a couple of times and went on as if nothing happened.
I have seen clutch steels look like that and soaked them in Evapo-rust. One would not believe how well that stuff works. Removes all the detritus and leaves everything with the whole shiny new look.

[DiverRay]

I had a Barnet pack in mine and the Aviation fuel soften the pads when I went to ride it yes it slipped so I readjusted and tried again and it would not hold

OK, the answer is in the quote. Who can see it??? anyone???
BARNETT PLATES DO NOT WORK THAT WELL!!!
The springs ARE GREAT!!! I just don't go with the plates. The stock metal and fiber plates work well with good springs. I HAVE had problems with Barnett friction plates in other bike, and NO LONGER USE THEM for that reason. YMMV, JMHO, etc........

[Bonz]

I got ya' DiverRay, what is the problem you have had with Barnett? Did they fall apart like is being shown here?

There hasn't been an answer about the AV gas question, so I am going to throw the "I don't believe it" (BS) flag up the pole. I don't see that being at all part of this problem, nor would it cause the problem. No heartburn intended, but sitting in Av gas (non-ethanol to boot) doesn't do the damage shown here.

Also, this was a basket case bike the clutch plate pic was taken of, yes? What might have been going on with it before?

[Buckmaster79]

Av gas

Well maybe it was another reason but I shut my gas off just about all
the time and when I don't it usually don't leak. But it has happen to me before
and I have changed the oil and been OK but when it slipped twice I'm glad I did
not run it.

[Radioguylogs]

...Also, this was a basket case bike the clutch plate pic was taken of, yes? What might have been going on with it before?

Yes, you can tell by the rusted friction plates, my "basket case" bike had soaked in gasoil for a long time. Ironically nothing else was rusted inside the engine.

One of my triples had gasoil in it for an unknown period before I bought it, and that clutch was fine.

[DiverRay]

I quit trying barnett plates when they went bad after about 15K miles in my XS650. That was just part of the year for me!! Stock plates seem to last longer so that is what I stick with. The springs, on the other hand, work VERY WELL. I've NEVER had a problem with them, other than building up the left forearm...on some bikes.

[MPittma100]

Details

Indicated by your signature, you have a 1979 Special. The petcocks can be manually shut off and operate by engine vacuum when in the ON position if you retain the "octy". That's the theory anyway. More often than not the octy flows fuel with or without vacuum. Many have discarded it as a result. Turning the petcocks OFF will not guarantee a leak free fuel system as the carbs (float valves) can still leak.

Try hard to leave/run only non-ethanol fuel in the bike when parked for extended periods. Put a 2X4 or equivalent under the front tire to send any leaking fuel to the air box rather than into the engine. As mentioned, it is time for you to rebuild the petcocks, carbs, and octy. Float valve setting for the SF is 25.7mm plus/minus 1mm. I have had the best results with a 26.7mm (highest) setting.

Until you have complete faith that you have no leaks, turn the fuel off when done riding and let the bike run a while or until it shuts off. It is a very good idea to run fuel to the carbs while they are off of the bike to check for leaks then rather than after they are back on the bike.

Good luck.

[Radioguylogs]

Roadman:

Mike (MPittma100) has good advice.

I have also used a 2x? board under the front wheel for bikes I didn't trust.

I have one other thing I do for safety. Whenever I am done riding any of my bikes, I shut off the petcocks and run it at 3,000 RPM for a minute to mostly drain the fuel bowls. Benefits:
(1) Drains the fuel in between the petcocks and the float bowls
(2) Leaves a buffer for a little fuel to leak without any side effects
(3) Puts fresh fuel in the bowl next time you go to start it.
(4) Leaves the spark plugs in a clean condition for an easy start next time

Good luck with your fixes- petcocks and float needles.

[sail4free]

Roadman:

I have also used a 2x? board under the front wheel for bikes I didn't trust.

I have one other thing I do for safety. Whenever I am done riding any of my bikes, I shut off the petcocks and run it at 3,000 RPM for a minute to mostly drain the fuel bowls. Benefits:
(1) Drains the fuel in between the petcocks and the float bowls
(2) Leaves a buffer for a little fuel to leak without any side effects
(3) Puts fresh fuel in the bowl next time you go to start it.
(4) Leaves the spark plugs in a clean condition for an easy start next time

Good luck with your fixes- petcocks and float needles.

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Of course, the board 'trick' only works on a perfectly level surface. I used to turn the fuel off on my Triumph Bonneville 750 and let it run until it quit *BUT* that extremely lean/hot burn discolored my new header pipes something awful. Is this an issue with the XS? Or do you turn the key off when you can tell it's starting to run out of gas? And it's always best to park the XS on the centerstand if it's going to be there for more than an hour or two?
JIM P.
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