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**BA80** · 01-18-2015, 07:47 AM

That circlip out of place wouldn't have caused the gears to skip although it would have eventually allowed the shifter ratchet lever to slip out of place and the shifter would quit working.

I'll tell you the same thing I tell everyone that flips the bike. It IS most definitely the easiest way to work on the transmission but you really need to pull the pan BEFORE flipping the bike. All that crap that WAS in the pan is now up in the top end of the engine except what that little pick up screen caught.

Also, drain the fluids from the middle and final drives or they will leak out the vents and make a mess on the floor.

I know that advice is too late in your case here but it's worth mentioning for anyone who may be reading this.

The forks are worn because the PO was holding it in gear. Yes, you do have some dremmel work to do and don't forget to do the washer swap.

Decent looking XJ. I hope it runs well.

**jetmechmarty** · 01-18-2015, 10:49 AM

I think Andreas advertised transmission parts in his last post.

I have an XS650 with a sidestand switch. Being an afterthought at the end of production, it has always presented a problem. That is, until I removed it. In that one, I simply added a shorting jumper. You'll be able to do the same, or possibly leave the circuit open as required.

**BillyRok** · 01-18-2015, 11:54 AM

Good tips Greg. I did drain the middle and final drives before flipping the bike but forgot to drop the oil filter cover so I did have a small amount of oil drip out. That step IS in the write up, I had the laptop next to me during the process but missed it in the instructions...my fault. And pulling the oil pan BEFORE flipping the bike for the reason you stated is only common sense, I should have thought of that. However, the write up has you flipping the bike and THEN pulling the pan. I'm thinking that maybe the write up could be edited to reflect the better order of steps, especially for anyone who comes along and may only ever do this process one time and wouldn't have the benefit of hindsight for the next go round.

Both the circlips on either side of the shift pawl were in place upon dis-assembly so I was curious if the one in the pan could be missing from else where or whether it was probably lost by a PO and just replaced, same thing happened with that washer too maybe?

**motoman** · 01-18-2015, 01:02 PM

Originally posted by BillyRok View Post

Good tips Greg. I did drain the middle and final drives before flipping the bike but forgot to drop the oil filter cover so I did have a small amount of oil drip out. That step IS in the write up, I had the laptop next to me during the process but missed it in the instructions...my fault. And pulling the oil pan BEFORE flipping the bike for the reason you stated is only common sense, I should have thought of that. However, the write up has you flipping the bike and THEN pulling the pan. I'm thinking that maybe the write up could be edited to reflect the better order of steps, especially for anyone who comes along and may only ever do this process one time and wouldn't have the benefit of hindsight for the next go round.

Both the circlips on either side of the shift pawl were in place upon dis-assembly so I was curious if the one in the pan could be missing from else where or whether it was probably lost by a PO and just replaced, same thing happened with that washer too maybe?

Uhhh......two circlips are on the clutch side of that shaft, IIRC both sides of oil pump idler gear........but that was some 6+yrs. ago and I got old since then

.

I do remember clips laying in the pan though.

**motoman** · 01-18-2015, 02:15 PM

Here is the shift fork shaft and the #1 and #3 shift forks. What issues might be caused by the circle clip not being seated properly and what do you think about the wear on the forks??

[IMG]

I believe the side-force abruptly kicking fork/dogs out of slot repeatedly causes the shift fork to catch/wedge so-to-speak on that shaft and not slide smoothly. Eventually that side-force from the rat-tat-tat of dogs not staying engaged knocks the circlips out of their slots. I've seen that repetative force even shear the roll pin that's thru the shaft on the clutch side, which holds that fork shaft stationary so the flat milled portion on it for gear clearance isn't compromised.

The lower shaft retaining bolt that pulls up tight against that bearing race on clutch-side coming loose creates ALL of those issues

.......DAHIK.

BTW, do not re-use those shift fork shaft circlips that have been forced off or out of place.........but, fairly sure you already knew that

.

**trbig** · 01-18-2015, 03:19 PM

I think the wear on the shift forks is fine. I've seen a lot worse.

As far as the circlips... I'd personally have no problems re-using them. They won't be stretched out any worse than if you just took them off with some pliers. You can squeeze them together with a pair of pliers to shrink it up a bit if it's been stretched. The biggest thing to make sure of is that those circlips have a very sharp/squared edge on one side and the other side is a bit rounded. Make sure and install both those clips to where the squared edge is facing out away from the motor. One goes on each side of that little idler gear that runs your oil pump gear. So, the order would be, coming out from that dowel pin in the rod against the case, circlip, washer, gear, washer, circlip. I'm assuming that's where the washer against your oil screen came from when the circlip came off.

1st gear looks pretty awful. I can probably scrounge one up from here somewhere that's in a little better shape if you need it.

**TopCatGr58** · 01-19-2015, 09:17 PM

Tech Tip

Okay....I'll make an edit to the tech tip suggesting they drop the tranny pan before flipping the bike.

That was written some 12 years ago IIRC, I've learned a bit more since then!

In my defense, draining the oil and dropping the filter cup I thought would be adequate for discharging most of the possible particles, the larger stuff would usually be caught by the pump screen, so I wasn't really very concerned about some little bits of "stuff" laying in the pan. And if they were that little, figured they would just stick to the sludge layer on the inside of the pan!

Billy, the others covered the rest of your questions....the washer is probably off of the end of the shaft where the oil pump gear is. Your photo shows the gear/shaft and the displaced/stretched C clip, but not the other side of the gear....and that gear IS held onto the shaft with the washer/C clip, it's not free floating!

Yeah, that 2nd/5th dog/slots look fairly worn, the 1st/4th are also worn a bit, but should respond to the dremmel just fine. Some folks have reported a much more difficult time in getting the countershaft/gears back into the tranny after the washer swap...to the point where they couldn't, put the washer back on the OEM side, and then put it back together....relying on the undercutting to do the brunt of the gripping to keep the gears together and engaged. Also, TrBig wrote a short while back about the grinding not necessarily having to be done all the way down the dogs to the gear base junction....just far enough to equal the distance of the dogs engagement depth into the slots. This can help in NOT excessively weakening the dog at the base to prevent the chance of shearing off....but have only seen on report of such occurrence after a dremmel job. YMMV

T.C.

**donebysunday** · 01-19-2015, 10:31 PM

The one and only trans fix I did (Thank You All) was not fun. Tried as I did the gear cluster would not go back in. I then noticed the tiny little corner of the engine block was keeping the gear cluster from going back in. I rounded off that little corner and the gear cluster went right in. You will see that corner getting in the way when you try to re-install the gear cluster.

**mack** · 01-20-2015, 01:38 PM

Hi Bill

Couple things: First, glad you made it home, the offer on the carbs still stands, if you changed your mind, i owe you $$$. Second thing is that I've had my motor apart and done the second gear fix and washer swap. Still waiting for some parts before I glue it all together and this popped up. So after I got back from my daughters house from drywalling and electrical, I pulled my tranny apart again and did a partial reassembly to show what TC and Grag are talking about with regard to the second gear fix. The following picture shows the washer swap done at the same time as the dremel fix. Much has been made about how much to take off before it weakens the dogs. The answer is reveiled in this photo.

It clearly shows that a reviel of 0.070 inches or 1.78 mm is never in contact. Is this amount significant enoungh to warranty a partial grinding. Who knows; Greg will argue yes and others will argue to the negative. I didn't bother. The next thing you should consider is if you want to grind both sides of the dog. I 'm a little aggressive and like to use my tranny to do my braking so my urge was to grind both sides; but, upon inspection I found my dogs looked pristine on the downshift side so I didn't bother. This will suppliment Gregs theory that grinding weakens the dogs. My end result was that I only removed half of what it would take to shear off a dog or three.
The other thing I found was that stinking flat clip. Remove it as best you can and put it in a vice, sandwiched between a couple pieces of cerial box board. That will allow you to clamp the clip in without cerating the surface of the clip. Then take a a fine file and cut v's into the clip ends like this.

This will allow for easier installation without distorting the clip's flat surface.
Lastly, I found that after the washer swap, I couldn't get the gearbox in to second gear, it 's very stiff. Someone suggested that using a dremel to put a slight bevel on the fixed gear face of the washer would help. Others suggested that just moving the washer and running the bike in second would wear the washer in to perfection. I believe that the latter is probably the case but when I reassembled the tranny, I couldn't get it into second at all. The gears were too tight and bound up. So, I didn't want to reasemble the bike and find everything but first and nuetral was out of question and have to turtle the bike and do more tranny work to tune it, so I opted for putting slight bevel on the washer first. I did this with a dremel with a modest grit grinding wheel and niggled my way into the matching bevel, repeatedly removing the washer from the grinder and checking the seat on the axle. When I was done, it and second gear moves freely and I know before I put the cases back together that I can hit all the gears and tune the bike without having to turtle it and pull the pan etc.
Good luck my friend.
Mack

**Radioguylogs** · 01-20-2015, 02:12 PM

My second gear was tight after the washer swap. Per the advice of Rick (Tarzan) I ground a very small chamfer around the inside hole in the washer on the side AWAY from second gear.

It made my second gear spin freely before re-assembly.

BTW. I was worried about the feel of second gear after the washer swap. IN/OUT of second gear now has the best feel of all the shifts among the gears. But, for some reason, I miss the upshift into 4th frequently.

**motoman** · 01-20-2015, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Radioguylogs View Post

My second gear was tight after the washer swap. Per the advice of Rick (Tarzan) I ground a very small chamfer around the inside hole in the washer on the side AWAY from second gear.

It made my second gear spin freely before re-assembly.

BTW. I was worried about the feel of second gear after the washer swap. IN/OUT of second gear now has the best feel of all the shifts among the gears. But, for some reason, I miss the upshift into 4th frequently.

Boots that are stiff on the top-side and not tenny-runners make for positive shifting

.

**Radioguylogs** · 01-20-2015, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by motoman View Post

Boots that are stiff on the top-side and not tenny-runners make for positive shifting

.

I concur. I have a pair of thick leather shoes I reserve for riding because they have a rigid sole and big thick sewn ridge around the top.

Makes a BIG difference.

**jetmechmarty** · 01-20-2015, 03:05 PM

You can't be lazy shifting an XS1100. If you're daydreaming as you drive, neutral will frequently come up between 4th and 5th.

**madmax-im** · 01-20-2015, 05:48 PM

neat job Billy back in '08 I did the same thing...but i had alot of help from Randy and TC...instead of dremelling I replaced both gearsets with new factory backcut gears...did save some time but not money

BTW irt was 65 and sunny here today

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