counter shaft washer swap

[cajun31]

Thanks Mac

video is great. By the way how did your hand surgery turn out? I noticed you were wearing a glove on one hand.

[mack]

surgery

I didn't know if the video took or not. I was hoping that TC would correct it if it didn't. The hand is coming along. I don't have much dexterity yet as you may have noticed and power is a problem . The glove keeps the swelling down, to a certain extent. I probably should be sitting around with it up in a sling for a few more months but that doesn't work for me. I'm shark like, in that I need to keep moving doing something. OCD/PTSD who knows. Just the way I am.

[Radioguylogs]

Thanks Mack

I appreciated the video, especially the shots showing the bevel cut onto the dogs. I wanted to see the angle before I did my grinding.

[mack]

Angle

when you pull it apart look at your third gear, it was back cut at the factory, that will give you a first hand representation of the perfect angle to shoot for. You may have to play with it a bit to get 2cd gear slots and 5th gear dogs to match up perfectly.

[tarzan]

When I did the washer swap on the LG I was grinding the gears on a couple months ago, I had the same problem with the gear not spinning freely. The problem is that the gear has a radius in it to accommodate a radius on the shaft. The washer has a square inside edge, so it won't go all the way against the shoulder on the shaft. I just used a Dremel to put a chamfer on the inside edge of the washer so the washer could fit all the way up against the shoulder. The gear spun freely, and everything works fine.

[BA80]

When I did the washer swap on the LG I was grinding the gears on a couple months ago, I had the same problem with the gear not spinning freely. The problem is that the gear has a radius in it to accommodate a radius on the shaft. The washer has a square inside edge, so it won't go all the way against the shoulder on the shaft. I just used a Dremel to put a chamfer on the inside edge of the washer so the washer could fit all the way up against the shoulder. The gear spun freely, and everything works fine.

Like I said............

If you just go ahead and put it together it seats in pretty quickly.

[trbig]

Like I said............

If you just go ahead and put it together it seats in pretty quickly.

+1. Done it several times like Greg is saying. As with many things in life, a little bit tight and working itself in to a perfect fit is better than having something that's been messed with too much and having it be too loose.

[Radioguylogs]

Angle

when you pull it apart look at your third gear, it was back cut at the factory, that will give you a first hand representation of the perfect angle to shoot for. You may have to play with it a bit to get 2cd gear slots and 5th gear dogs to match up perfectly.

Helpful thought Mack- Thanks

I'm actually having trouble with first gear slipping. I have new 2nd and 5th gears, so the most I am going to do to them is the washer swap, although I'm not committed to it yet.

I am more thinking about 1st and 4th gear grinding. I have a new 1st gear, but not the 4th, so I'll need to grind them both.

I have the bike halfway stripped, so I'll be grinding within the next few few weeks.

[tarzan]

Each man to himself, I learned a long time ago that if I put something together that doesn't feel right, that I often times have problems after assembly. You are probably right on this one Greg and Tod, but I don't like taking chances on something that takes that much work just to get in and back out to work on it.

[mack]

1&4

Mike look at TC's tip on this and pay attention to the methodology for 1 &4. It's a bit different from 2/5 fix. You'll need a dremel diamond cut off wheel or equivalent.

[trbig]

Helpful thought Mack- Thanks

I'm actually having trouble with first gear slipping. I have new 2nd and 5th gears, so the most I am going to do to them is the washer swap, although I'm not committed to it yet.

I am more thinking about 1st and 4th gear grinding. I have a new 1st gear, but not the 4th, so I'll need to grind them both.

I have the bike halfway stripped, so I'll be grinding within the next few few weeks.

First off, slipping and skipping are two completely different problems. If you have new gears for 2nd and 5th, simply swap the washer and you'll never have to worry about either of those gears again. There's just not much engagement between those two gears and the washer basically doubles that amount they contact each other when in 2nd. Even with what little contact there is, many people never have a problem with the gears. Simply move the washer and it'll be bullet-proof.

If you have a new first gear, DO NOT TOUCH IT WITH A GRINDER! Just square the dogs back up on 4th gear. Since 1st is a solid gear, it's the worst to try to grind precisely anyway.

For those people grinding the gears, it's good to try to get close to the same contact on the slots with each dog, but not critical. You don't even have to actually grind it at an angle, you just need the top squared back up to get rid of that rounded section. When you grind on the dogs, you've just cut through the hardened surface to the softer metal underneath. The theory that the back cut will pull these gears together under stress looks great on paper, but since the hardening is gone, after a couple hundred miles, what you ground them to look like and what they end up being are two completely different things. The softer metal forms to the shape that works, and with the stress to the metal and being in a carbon bath, it will eventually get somewhat of a surface hardness again, but your beveled back cut will no longer exist.

But... some will insist on and continue removing much more metal than necessary.

[mack]

Gears

Big I agree. But, are these gears available anyplace? I Haven't had to work on them for my SF or LH but this E was driven into the ground and I figured since the final drive and drive shaft have been virtually stripped that the second gear (at least) would be in rough shape. Since it was a long way from being a runner when I got it, I have no way of knowing if it needed the repair or not. Inspection reveiled evidence of the requirement .But since it was apart, I would rather make the repair now than put it all back together and find out later I should have. If I had new gears I would have prefered the washer swap and pre-loading the shifter in the future for sure, just like I'd been the only rider from the start. I'm not aware that that new gears was an option!

[Radioguylogs]

Mike look at TC's tip on this and pay attention to the methodology for 1 &4. It's a bit different from 2/5 fix. You'll need a dremel diamond cut off wheel or equivalent.

I had read TCs write-up a few times now, and I noted the following:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/images/tip...grinding_b.gif

Is there another posting referring to the diamond cutter instead of the large grinding stone?

PS: I am feeling sheepish about hijacking this thread for something that has been covered before. I recognized trbig's strong advice from the previous discussions, and I appreciate everyone's opinion/advice.

[BA80]

+1. Done it several times like Greg is saying. As with many things in life, a little bit tight and working itself in to a perfect fit is better than having something that's been messed with too much and having it be too loose.

Unfortunately I've approached some things from the other direction.

[BA80]

But, are these gears available anyplace?

2nd gear is still available however kinda pricey. 5th doesn't appear to be.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ya...ION/parts.html