Timing? hard start? hmmm

[Jeffintampa]

Hi all,
Stinking problem it seems I have always had on this bike and wondered if every one is like this, seems my 850 did this to.

When you hit the start button (even with a fresh battery) the bike is rut rut rut rut veroom... If its hot like stopping at a gas station and restarting it can be worse.

Is the timing a bit off or does it just take a lot to turn all 4

Thanks
Jeff

[IanDMacDonald]

I believe many have reported on here (especially in the heat), that it's related to a vapor lock.

Taken from the following thread:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...d+starting+hot

Here is what Greg (BA80) said:

"We found that just holding the throttle wide open when cranking clears out the fuel vapor that collects in the air filter (air box) because of the heat causing evaporation of the fuel."

Others in the thread spoke-of checking battery voltage at cranking, as-well as pickup coil wires.

[Schming]

Yes, it does take a lot of oomph to turn these engines over,
and that's why I would bet that your bikes electrical connections need cleaned, especially the grounds.

Along with all plug connections, bulb sockets and grounds, the left and right handlebar control innards most likely will need some sprucing up also.

The ignition switch and fuse box are areas of concern also.

These bikes demand all of the above and a fully charged battery to start and charge properly

[Jeffintampa]

hard

Its not like it don't want to start but more like a dead battery. I have cleaned and shined up both grounds, new battery.

[buffalo]

Have you removed and checked the ground cable from the engine to frame? I had that same issue with a 78 I had, sometimes even no start on hot restart. Everything looked fine on mine until I pulled the ground wire off and the connector was black underneath. Cleaned it up and it worked like new.

[jetmechmarty]

Its not like it don't want to start but more like a dead battery. I have cleaned and shined up both grounds, new battery.

Slow crank? Yes, check the timing. Mine doesn't always like to start when hot, but the starter has no trouble spinning it rapidly.

[BA80]

If the plate under the timing cover still has the tamper proof bolts in it then the timing hasn't moved. It can't.

A slow crank like that is indicative of an electrical issue, wiring or a dragging starter.

Those of you who said these engines are hard to crank I beg to differ. I have started mine many times with the kicker and I've kicked 250cc dirt bike engines that are a LOT harder to kick.

As someone already mentioned, check all your connections particularly the grounds. Negative to frame and frame to engine. That's usually where the problem is. Try running a jumper cable, like for jumping a car battery, from the negative side of the battery directly to the engine case and see if that helps.

Have you checked the electrolyte in the battery lately? Mine started cranking slow a couple weeks ago and when I checked the battery it was almost dry. Just riding over the summer. I had checked it in the spring.

[Jerry]

I've mentioned this before but not recently. The battery cables can corrode inside the fittings. I replaced both cables on my XJ and was surprised at what a difference it made, even after cleaning all 4 connectors. (Battery + and -, negative to frame, and positive to solenoid.) Just for hoots I cut the old cables apart and found a lot of internal corrosion.

So if your battery is good and you have tried cleaning the connections, consider replacing the cables. I found my XJ cranked and started a whole lot easier/better after replacing the cables. Ground cable is generic but the positive cable, at least on the XJ, has an additional lead on it. I bought an OEM cable to replace the positive cable. If I recall correctly it was around $14.00.

[bikerdave79]

I had the same issue with my xs when I first got it. The vacuum fuel valve was leaking when the bike was off causing flooding. Holding the throttle open was the only way to start it. After rebuilding the vacuum valve it cleared up.

[Jeffintampa]

Well stuck me last night

Rode the bike to a overtime work event last night. got off at 10 pm in the light rain, jumped on the bike rut rut rrrrrrruuuuut rrrrruutt click click click. had to get a push start to go home.
Cleaned and shined up neg cable both ends pos cable both ends. and am charging the battery on tickle right now....

[Jeffintampa]

were is the engine ground

were is the engine ground wire you all talked about

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Jeff,

Find the Starter Motor, one of the securing bolts for the starter housing should have the engine ground strap connected to it, and it should run rearwards towards the frame and the lower left side cover lock.

T.C.

[bikerphil]

That ground strap runs from a middle drive case bolt to the frame.

[IanDMacDonald]

Hey Jeff- Do u carry a voltmeter with you? Next time this happens, check battery voltage. I'm willing to bet a R/R or stator is not doing it's job. Time to throw some leads across your battery and see if the bike is charging . . .

[Jeffintampa]

Love it when a plan works

Hi everyone and thanks again for all your help on my old bike. Daily driver love it. I go 3.5 miles to work.

Well had it all charged up, went to look for that motor to frame wire and realized how dirty my bike was. I sprayed it all down cleaned it up and pulled the wire off, filed it clean, cleaned up the motor and frame connection, fired right up boom no turn over hardly at all.
Put a mulitmeter on the battery turned off 12.4
Running at an Idle .8 right around 11.98 12.25
1 k 13.45
2k 14.80

what ya think seem ok to you guys?

Thanks again
Jeff