Stuck Pilot Jets in #3 & 4 Carbs

[Slimbob]

Hello,
So, I have begun rebuilding the Carbs on my 81 XS1100-SH and got stuck already. The Pilot Jets in #3 and 4 Carbs would not come out easily and were broken by the screwdriver when attempted even though the Screwdriver blade fit perfectly. I have soaked these jets in PB Blaster for a week.

OK,
So the Jets are stuck. I went and bought left handed drill bits and a set of easy outs. Drilled the #3 Pilot Jet and inserted the easy out bit. Turned it into the Jet and the Easyoout Bit snapped off almost flush with the top of the Jet.

Now what do I do? I'm out of ideas.

Automotive Machine Shop? Buy new #3 and 4 Carbs? Ugh!

Help Please,
Slimbob

[jetmechmarty]

Drilling through an EZ-Out is a tough job. Those things are very hard.

[Slimbob]

Yeah, I'm screwed big Time!

[WMarshy]

OH SNAP! Unfortunately they seem to dig themselves deeper rather than spinning out the softer material fastners and if the hole is larg enough they will cut right into the aluminum. You'r probably looking at a new carb body at this point.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bob,

Did you see my thread on Carb Anatomy?

These are the views of the 80-81 carbs...the 1st 2 photos. The 3rd is a recent ZOOM image of the 78-79 pilot jet and tunnel.







The last image shows how the pilot jet is sealed when the TIP hits the bottom of the tunnel. Also, in both year sets, the AERATION of the pilot circuit occurs AFTER the end of the pilot jet. In the 80-81 carbs the pilot feeds directly from the bowl, not from the sharing tunnel with the main.

SO.....what I'm saying is that you could take a dremel tool and essentially cut down the pilot jet tower down to the pilot jet head. You could expose enough to be able to get a pair of pliers onto the end of the broken easy out tip. The pilot jet can feed directly from the bowl, it doesn't have to have that fancy tower above it(Carb upside down), just needs to have enough threads to torque the jet in place so it won't come loose and can seal the TIP down inside the tunnel. JAT You might also get enough exposure to use the dremel to recut a new straight screwdriver slot into the head of the jet?? Yeah, like you've learned easy outs are very brittle bits and the slightest off angle while torquing causes them to break! This is why often it's suggest to mount it into a drill press chuck, a drill press VICE for the carb body, and then HAND turn the chuck while slowly lowering the drill press handle, the chuck and vice can help keep the easy out bit straight.

Also, PB blaster is good, but I would also apply a few cycles of HEAT from a heat gun or such, and while HOT then spritz it with carb cleaner or such. The hot/cold shock treatment can also help to break loose the varnish/gum such.

Good Luck.
T.C.

[donebysunday]

To late now but I ground down an impact driver until it fit the slot in the pilot jet perfect. Soak the jet in the carb with BPB, let sit a while, try loosening carefully, still stuck shoot some carb or brake cleaner in there and then more BPB sit again. T.C. has a point on the hot cold, but I thought just letting the cleaner evaporate would draw the BPB into the threads, try this again and again until it starts to turn then more BPB and cleaner and turn back and forth until loose.

[WMarshy]

To late now but I ground down an impact driver until it fit the slot in the pilot jet perfect. Soak the jet in the carb with BPB, let sit a while, try loosening carefully, still stuck shoot some carb or brake cleaner in there and then more BPB sit again. T.C. has a point on the hot cold, but I thought just letting the cleaner evaporate would draw the BPB into the threads, try this again and again until it starts to turn then more BPB and cleaner and turn back and forth until loose.

No turning it now that the extractor is broken off...

[mack]

easy outs

they are a scourge when used on these carbs. Once they break off it's pretty much game over. The worst part is trying to get a drill bit centered on the hard steel to try to drill the easy out, back out. I've quit even trying when I find one broken off in a carb. TC's idea could work provided the it hasn't wedged itself in too tight before it broke off, but really, what have you got to lose. Try it and let us know how you made out.

[Tenorman]

Maybe it's too late for this but....

I had two that came out very easily and two that did not...

I got a propane torch and carefully heated the carb body until it was quite hot...

It really made the difference. I tried all of the "liquid wrenches"...not as good as heat.

If there's anyway to get a hold of the jet (maybe grind down a pair if needle nose pliers), try the heat method...

At this point, you don't have much to loose....

Just a thought....

Tenorman

[TopCatGr58]

Well,

I was a bit tired last night when I posted my reply, and wasn't thinking it all the way thru! Granted the head of the pilot jet would still be at the ~3 mm from the surface of the carb body flange, but cutting down the tower to get access to the jet would probably not be a good idea afterall!

The tower provides a STRAW affect that is very deep into the float bowl and the fuel surface level....so that during movement even though the surface of the fuel would be making waves and sloshing about and such, the deeper reaching pilot jet tower/straw would keep the end well below the waves and turbulence, and allow it to be able to keep sucking fuel up thru the jet instead of possibly getting air when the fuel waves/troughs could expose the head of the exposed pilot jet if it wasn't surrounded by a tower/straw!

I'm surprised none of the other gurus caught my faux paux line of thinking and corrected me!!

Of course, IF you've already taken the dremmel to the tower and cut it down to the jet head, then there might be a way to rig up a STRAW type tube back onto the head of the jet so that it could still reach the depth of the OEM jet tower. I can invision a small metallic tube ie brake/fuel line or similar small diameter, and then find a way to put a VITON type O-ring onto the end and have it seal against the top/head of the pilot jet or remaining jet tower.

T.C.

[mack]

actually

TC i did think about it. I used some ratio and proportion and compensated for the picture scale and drew a line across at the 3mm fuel level. If the pilot jet with no side holes is used, a substantial amount of the jet would be emersed maintaining the straw effect. I think it was motoman who said the drop from the static level was 2mm under load, so that will still leave some of the jet submerged and the carbs would be on the mains anyway. Twisty's could pose an issue but usually your RPMs are back down so the fuel level should be back up as well.
The way I looked at it was, the carb is toast if he did nothing. It's worth a try!

[James England]

I was given a set of brand-new Easy-Outs and binned them immediately. The theory is all very well but once they have snapped off inside a stud, or bolt, or carb jet or whatever, there's no way they can be drilled out easily or accurately. Personally, I think Easy-Outs are a complete menace and simply not worth using.

I had one jet that did the same as yours and I was able to mostly drill it out and that allowed me to proggle the remnants of the brass threads out of the grooves in the body. I felt lucky to have got away with it, even then. With a snapped off EO, I think you're up against a tough one

[motoman]

Snapped off easy-out and aluminum threaded hole.........your not only done... but 'well done'......a too precision machined area that does NOT allow anything but precision......it is what it is........which is a paper weight at this point .

[James England]

Strip everything useable off the carb body, especially the slide and diaphragm. You can sell these parts on eBay to help finance buying a replacement carb..or more likely a bank of four. If you end up buying four carbs, you'll end up with loads of bits which can be sold (I've just done exactly that) and hopefully break even on the whole deal.


Take the stripped carb body outside, place on a brick and then whack it with a sledgehammer. You'll feel better and it will stop you devoting any more time to trying unsuccessfully to fix it! There's nothing worse than spending hours and hours in a futile attempt to repair the irreparable, only to have to give up......

[fredintoon]

So the Jets are stuck. I went and bought left handed drill bits and a set of easy outs. Drilled the #3 Pilot Jet and inserted the easy out bit. Turned it into the Jet and the Easyoout Bit snapped off almost flush with the top of the Jet.
Now what do I do? I'm out of ideas.
Slimbob

Hi bob,
yer fukd.
OK, an EDM (Electrical Discharge Machine, AKA Sparkatron) will burn the EasyOut stub out and the dead jet too.
But it's less costly to buy a replacement carb body.
What has worked for me in the past, even on cratered out carb jets, and should work for you too
the next time you get medieval on your carbs is to use a drill press.
Set the carb up square on the press platform.
Grind up a screwdriver bit to be a perfect fit in the jet's screwdriver slot and mount it in the drill press chuck.
Unplug the drill press.
Bear down on the drill feed capstan to force the screwdriver bit into the jet's screwdriver slot.
Back the chuck out by hand to unscrew the jet.