no air filters??

[rdmcguy]

After dealing with multiple sets of carbs..got down to my last set (early style)
and they work great........until I put air filters on.I have modified a set of pods so the rubber flange does not interfere with airflow....but still have a major stumbling cutting out...to me it indicates a rich condition ...worse with choke on....it doesn't seem to me that it would be across all rpm ranges.. but it is..all GOOD ideas will be appreciated..thanks

[motoman]

After dealing with multiple sets of carbs..got down to my last set (early style)
and they work great........until I put air filters on.I have modified a set of pods so the rubber flange does not interfere with airflow....but still have a major stumbling cutting out...to me it indicates a rich condition ...worse with choke on....it doesn't seem to me that it would be across all rpm ranges.. but it is..all GOOD ideas will be appreciated..thanks

Does it act up when turning RIGHT.......or just straight ahead?.
Sounds like the carbs are having................never mind......not even goin' there.

[cajun31]

How old

are the pod filters? Are they clean and are they allowing good air flow?

[rdmcguy]

losing my patience

Motoman...To finish your thought....I don't think my carbs are having an electrical issue but could be wrong...These are new pods lightly oiled ...also took a set off of a different machine......same results.....I wonder what he life expectancy of the engine would be with no air filters???No I won't do that but am getting a bit tired of f***ing with these carbs...An afterthought...I wonder if my aftermarket diaphragms..(jbm enterprises)could be the issue
I think I will take a set of carbs known to be correct and see what happens.

[D0wn5h1ft]

After dealing with multiple sets of carbs..got down to my last set (early style)
and they work great........until I put air filters on.I have modified a set of pods so the rubber flange does not interfere with airflow....but still have a major stumbling cutting out...to me it indicates a rich condition ...worse with choke on....it doesn't seem to me that it would be across all rpm ranges.. but it is..all GOOD ideas will be appreciated..thanks

Are the new carbs with stocking jetting? To me, it sounds like you have a weak spark or bad plugs or a combo. If the stock mixture is "too rich" then all you're doing by running with no filters is leaning out the mixture enough to have a weak spark ignite it. More compression and more fuel means you need a stronger spark and if you started out with a weak one then there's your culprit.

Have you tried holding your plugs next to your engine block? To give some reference, I can hold my plugs about a 1/4" from my block and the spark will jump the gap. This is with dyna coils though. Check that and your plug gaps and you might find the issue.

Orrrrr...it's a timing problem. Check the timing wheel with an ignition strobe. I don't know how the ignition could have gotten out of time (if you haven't been messing with it) but that might be it too.

[Bonz]

rdmcguy, motoman was not referring to an electrical problem... Just a reference to the now famous right turn... LOL!

What you are saying is the carbs work fine, across the spectrum of riding, stopping, starting, accelerating, without the filters on the carbs, correct?

Engines in general won't reliably ignite a very rich mixture with a healthy stock spark, so not sure that is your problem, but check the ignition to see if you have the readings you need. Timing wise, if it's out of time it would run poorly with rich or lean mixture ,IMO.

As you described, the mixture with these pods on is rich, especially when you add choke and makes it worse.

What jetting are you running? Have you adjusted needle height, what float height are you running, size of pilot jets, fuel screw setting?

I think you are just rich with pods on and you can tune that out. Pods flow a lot of air, but not so much compared to open inlets, so you gotta take away some fuel.

Have you gone down a couple sizes in main jets, it'll tell you if rich was the problem. Is this the Marie bike you are working on?

[D0wn5h1ft]

Oh, I forgot to ask. Is the vacuum advance hooked up? The amount of advance you get is highly affected by air flow restriction. I have numbers laying around here somewhere of vac advance amount at various RPMs with and without pods on.

[WMarshy]

Just a hunch, wash out the oil you put on the pod filters and put them back on once they are dry and see what happens...

[Bonz]

Interesting... There is a difference in ignition timing when pods are used due to vacuum variance caused by the pods?

Are the pods designed to be oiled? I am assuming so? Removing the pods and it running better says it's running rich with the pods.

Unless you are gonna run the pods without oil on them, cleaning them and seeing what happens is a moot point, you already know it leans out when you remove air restriction. Therefore its simply tuning the carbs to the amount of air you have. Just my $.02.

[WMarshy]

Interesting... There is a difference in ignition timing when pods are used due to vacuum variance caused by the pods?

Are the pods designed to be oiled? I am assuming so? Removing the pods and it running better says it's running rich with the pods.

Unless you are gonna run the pods without oil on them, cleaning them and seeing what happens is a moot point, you already know it leans out when you remove air restriction. Therefore its simply tuning the carbs to the amount of air you have. Just my $.02.

I tend to agree but it also rules out a possible cause and maybe they are not intended to be oiled. If nothing then no foul, just re-oil them and carry on.

[Bonz]

I was operating under the premise the pod filter media in question is supposed to be oiled. I should not ass-u-me.

Yep, if those are dry filter elements, oiling them is killing air flow so a cleaning leaves nothing to lose.

[rdmcguy]

on and on it goes

Thanks fellas,
I don't know how the timing could be off it ran fine before I borrowed the carbs for a different bike.
I have been avoiding going back through EVERYTHING but might not be a bad idea.as I mentioned I have jbm enterprises diaphragms..and for some reason #1 carb diaphragm slips off the slide??they suggest super gluing it on so will do that also...Yes these filters are meant to be oiled but will clean and attempt that also...stock jetting across the board floats at 26.5...
No motoman not only on right turns...lol...
Howard this is on Marie...Not to be confused with Marie Marie which is the bike I rode at the rally.
On a side note Marie was my first 11 purchased with money I received from the insurance company from the drunk driver that killed my mom..
Marie Marie was found on ebay as a basket case..Strangely enough
It was located in my moms hometown in Ilinois..So in her honor
They carry her name...

So what do you Colorado riders think of a early fall ride?
Bonz,Capton Zap,Sebastian,Skids,Motoman OR anyone else?

[Bonz]

You mean the diaphragm won't seal/stay attached around the slide body, or the diaphragm lip won't stay seated in the round groove when you go to put the carb top back on?

Still, if it runs without pods but won't run with them hooked up, the diaphragms aren't likely the problem.

Don't understand using pods and running stock jetting across the board? That should be lean as heck. Then removing pods should make it crazy lean. If it runs well without pods that isnt stock jetting in there, IMO.

But I know you have checked all that, so it leaves me perplexed.

[motoman]

Thanks fellas,
I don't know how the timing could be off it ran fine before I borrowed the carbs for a different bike.
I have been avoiding going back through EVERYTHING but might not be a bad idea.as I mentioned I have jbm enterprises diaphragms..and for some reason #1 carb diaphragm slips off the slide??they suggest super gluing it on so will do that also...Yes these filters are meant to be oiled but will clean and attempt that also...stock jetting across the board floats at 26.5...
No motoman not only on right turns...lol...
Howard this is on Marie...Not to be confused with Marie Marie which is the bike I rode at the rally.
On a side note Marie was my first 11 purchased with money I received from the insurance company from the drunk driver that killed my mom..
Marie Marie was found on ebay as a basket case..Strangely enough
It was located in my moms hometown in Ilinois..So in her honor
They carry her name...

So what do you Colorado riders think of a early fall ride?
Bonz,Capton Zap,Sebastian,Skids,Motoman OR anyone else?

I'd likely have to wrap bailin' twine around the tires to appease the chain-law to get over the 'hill'.

[motoman]

I'd likely have to wrap bailin' twine around the tires to appease the chain-law to get over the 'hill'.

.......but you'd have to send me the playing card and clothes pin to complete the package.