2nd Gear Fix is Eminent, Denial is Futile

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  • WMarshy
    XS-XJ Guru
    • Apr 2009
    • 2402
    • Mexico NY
    #1

    2nd Gear Fix is Eminent, Denial is Futile

    Started developing the dreaded 2nd gear issue last season and noticed 4th gear is doing it on hard pulls also. Back cutting the dogs seems eminent at this point but I only have one machine to ride. I'm likely going to pick up a spare set to work on while I baby the rest of this season. I have access to a vertical mill and plan to "do it right".

    Right now Im doing some reasearch on recommended back cut angle. So far 3-5* backcut seems to be common. Anyone care to guess how thick the case hardening is on these dogs? I might stick with 3 degrees for the sake of not removing any more material than I have to...

    When I get to it I will post learnings and pics.
    '79 XS11 F
    Stock except K&N

    '79 XS11 SF
    Stock, no title.

    '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
    GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

    "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~
    Tags: None
    • rover
      XSive Maximus
      • Jan 2004
      • 765
      • central WI (715)
      #2
      gears

      3* should be enough to hold the dogs/slots together. I don't think you will be able to cut the slots with an end mill. Even then, you would need special end mills with the sides cut at the 3* angle. Stones are about the only thing that will cut the case hardened parts, but stones wear rather quickly.
      put something smooooth betwen your legs, XS eleven
      79 F (Blueballs)
      79 SF (Redbutt)
      81 LH (organ donor)
      79 XS 650S (gone to MC heaven)
      76 CB 750 (gone to MC heaven)
      rover has spoken

        Comment

        • WMarshy
          XS-XJ Guru
          • Apr 2009
          • 2402
          • Mexico NY
          #3
          Carbide endmill will work just fine. A rotary table would be the cats @ss and help speed up the work, not sure if I will have access to that though...
          '79 XS11 F
          Stock except K&N

          '79 XS11 SF
          Stock, no title.

          '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
          GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

          "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

            Comment

            • jwhughes3
              XS-XJ Guru
              • Sep 2009
              • 2793
              • Home of the Alamo
              #4
              I dont think you can grind and not go thru the hardened section.

              John
              John is in an anonymous city with an Alamo (N29.519227,W-98.678980)

              Go ahead, click on the bikes - you know you want to...the electrons are ready.
              '81 XS1100H - "Enterprise"
              Bob Jones Custom Navy bike: Tkat brace, EBC floating rotors & SS lines, ROX pivot risers, Geezer rectifier, new 3H3 engine

              "Not all treasure is silver and gold"

                Comment

                • WMarshy
                  XS-XJ Guru
                  • Apr 2009
                  • 2402
                  • Mexico NY
                  #5
                  Originally posted by jwhughes3
                  I dont think you can grind and not go thru the hardened section.

                  John
                  At this point all reasearch suggests that any material removal will likely result in the removal of the case hardened boundary layer. Im not exactly sure which method was used to case harden it, or what steel the gear is (my guess is a low carbon) but thickness varries based on those two parameters. It could be as thick as a few tenths of a thousandth or as much as ten thousandths of an inch. Process makes a big difference...

                  Low Carbon Steel Case Hardening Process Explained
                  http://www.brighthubengineering.com/manufacturing-technology/119103-low-carbon-steel-case-hardening-process/
                  How would you attribute metal, properties that would assure external hardness as well as internal toughness to it? Low carbon case hardening steel is made through one such process through which a metal’s outer crust is made very hard and tamper proof without disturbing its internal compositions. Case hardening of low carbon steel material is quite popular and is widely employed and finds varied applications in numerous fields. The article explains many different case hardening procedures like open-hearth, box, cyaniding, nitriding etc.
                  Last edited by WMarshy; 07-29-2014, 07:32 AM.
                  '79 XS11 F
                  Stock except K&N

                  '79 XS11 SF
                  Stock, no title.

                  '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
                  GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

                  "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

                    Comment

                    • WMarshy
                      XS-XJ Guru
                      • Apr 2009
                      • 2402
                      • Mexico NY
                      #6
                      Anyone looking for a lite read?

                      404 - File or directory not found.
                      http://steel.keytometals.com/Articles/Art113.htm


                      Seems like a good database of info...

                      Total Materia - Where Material Information Meets Design, Innovation and Sustainability
                      http://www.keytometals.com/page.aspx?ID=Articles&LN=EN
                      Trusted by the world’s industry leaders to deliver sustainable, innovative products and solutions to the planet
                      Last edited by WMarshy; 07-29-2014, 07:59 AM.
                      '79 XS11 F
                      Stock except K&N

                      '79 XS11 SF
                      Stock, no title.

                      '84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
                      GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

                      "What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~

                        Comment

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