Front End Upgrade Questions

[D0wn5h1ft]

Been poking around for some information on upgrading the front end. I've found a few things out but I was left with more questions than when I started.

I want to do a front end upgrade as part of a bigger overhaul I'm doing (can't stop spending money on my baby ). The goal is to upgrade the brakes overall and get a little more performance out of the front end. In a perfect world I'd like to go with four piston calipers, drilled rotors, stiffer single-rate springs, fork brace for stability, and adjustable preload.

I know that a bunch of tubes drop right into the XS11 trees but I've also heard that the 'Busa front end drops right into the steering neck. Are forks with the ability to mount four-piston calipers enough to get what I want out of the bike or do I need to drop in a whole new front end? Are the stock trees good enough to do what I'm wanting? From a performance stand point I don't really see the benefit of going with new lower trees except to install a damper.

To quite down the tidal wave of "you don't want to do that"s that usually come in , I'm not looking for the most comfortable ride or a touring setup. I just want a little more modern setup on this 600lbs freight train because I like to do a lot of country road and hill riding. Yes, there are people out there that already do this with stock everything or the FJ swap but I'm not content with the stock setup and I'd like to do an upgrade.

Any recommendations?

[jwhughes3]

I think you can get there without adding another bike.

I think JeffH has reported very good handling results with a fork brace and custom RaceTech cartridge emulators in the tubes. The full floating EBC rotors on my Navy bike cut a few pounds of circulating weight off the front & rear wheels. Add SS brake lines and Nissen master cylinder and braking is much improved.

John

[D0wn5h1ft]

I think you can get there without adding another bike.

I think JeffH has reported very good handling results with a fork brace and custom RaceTech cartridge emulators in the tubes. The full floating EBC rotors on my Navy bike cut a few pounds of circulating weight off the front & rear wheels. Add SS brake lines and Nissen master cylinder and braking is much improved.

John

No hope of four piston calipers on the XS11 forks? S/S lines and a new MC are on my radar but no matter how you slice it the performance will never be up to snuff with more modern front ends. I mean take a look at all sport (not supersport) bikes made in the last 10 years. They all weigh half as much and have twice the braking power.

Obviously, I'm never going to get modern sport bike performance out of a 1979 Japanese cruiser but I don't really see the point in bolting on upgrades to an outdated front end when I coud just swap the whole thing out which is what most people with "custom" bikes do anyways. Maybe that is just me though.

I do appreciate input, however, it's interesting to hear about things people have done to get the existing setup to work for them.

[jetmechmarty]

The big question is "How much do you want to spend?"

Sooner or later, you run into the limitations of the XS1100. I chose sooner than later, but have gone farther than most.

You can transform the stock front end. Stiff springs will not function with damper rods. You will require cartridge emulators.
springs - $125
emulators- $150 to $185
You will also need seals and fork oil, plus spacer material.
Springs that will give the performance you're looking for will put a lot of load on the forks. You will require a fork brace @ $100 to $125.
Unsprung weight can be reduced with new brake rotors. You can get rotors that weigh as little as 2 lbs 15 oz each. The rotors can cost over $500 for a pair! If your XS11 is a standard there are many friction compounds available for the stock rotors. Stainless lines will be next, and a new master cylinder for better feel. www.650Central.com is a good source for stuff to get your bike stopped.
Doing the above will make an incredible difference. I have the fork mods with stock brakes other than stainless lines and ceramic pads.

I don't know what a front end swap will end up costing, but I'm sure it's extremely variable. With a 'busa front end, you may figure out where the frame flexes. Eventually, there's nothing left to do, but raise your butt and drive a new bike under it.

[D0wn5h1ft]

The big question is "How much do you want to spend?"

Sooner or later, you run into the limitations of the XS1100. I chose sooner than later, but have gone farther than most.

You can transform the stock front end. Stiff springs will not function with damper rods. You will require cartridge emulators.
springs - $125
emulators- $150 to $185
You will also need seals and fork oil, plus spacer material.
Springs that will give the performance you're looking for will put a lot of load on the forks. You will require a fork brace @ $100 to $125.
Unsprung weight can be reduced with new brake rotors. You can get rotors that weigh as little as 2 lbs 15 oz each. The rotors can cost over $500 for a pair! If your XS11 is a standard there are many friction compounds available for the stock rotors. Stainless lines will be next, and a new master cylinder for better feel. www.650Central.com is a good source for stuff to get your bike stopped.
Doing the above will make an incredible difference. I have the fork mods with stock brakes other than stainless lines and ceramic pads.

I don't know what a front end swap will end up costing, but I'm sure it's extremely variable. With a 'busa front end, you may figure out where the frame flexes. Eventually, there's nothing left to do, but raise your butt and drive a new bike under it.

I was trying to cap my budget at around $600 that's why I was looking at a newer set of salvage/parts forks from a modern-er sportbike. I figured by the time that I dropped all that money upgrading my stock forks with all the things you mentioned I'd be WAY over the cost of a set of ebay forks off an R1 (or whatever matches my stock trees). At least new forks would come with better springs, better rotors, better calipers, etc right off another bike. Then if anything got damaged on my bike I could just buy another set of used parts from whatever model the forks came from and bolt it on and go.

As far as front wheels are concerned, I assume that if I do a fork swap I'm going to be stuck using that model's front wheel? Then I have to get into the game of finding a model with a front wheel that jives well with the cast aluminum rear that I assume can't be replaced by anything else besides another XS11 wheel.

[jwhughes3]

No hope of four piston calipers on the XS11 forks?

Yes there is hope. You need to search but there is a thread on a conversion plate I think that allowed mounting a Harley 4 piston caliper.

Sorry Marty I thought it was Jeff that had done the fork work and forgot it was you.

FWIW the FJ1100 forks fit the XS trees I believe and offer a marginal upgrade with bigger forks but similar brakes.

John

[jetmechmarty]

John,

Jeff upgraded forks as well. He handed his off to Traxxion Dynamics. They rebuilt them with custom springs and Race Tech Gold Valve Emulators. They also tuned them. His is better than mine, because mine are tuned by me, and I don't know what I'm doing.

If you do it yourself, you can get springs, emulators, and a fork brace, and come in under $500. There is futzing involved with getting it right. This modification alone will transform the motorcycle. Improving the brakes can be as simple as finding the right pads.

If your XS11 is a standard, you can install an XS650 brake upgrade.
Pandemonium Brake Kit™ 35mm for XS650

Going this route, you may very well meet your $600 budget. I believe using another front end could lead to unexpected costs.

BTW, Jeff's bike goes like stink! Ask anyone who's seen it run.

[TomB]

I've made conversion plates for a couple of XS's, one to fit Blue Spot calipers to XS Special forks, and the other to fit twin pot slider calipers to Standard forks. They look similar to the plate Marty shows. The Blue Spots needed the disc spacer shown in Marty's pic.

If you have the skills the job can be done with a little $50 drill press, hacksaw and file.

[jetmechmarty]

[YOUTUBE]fM-597YvjOM[/YOUTUBE]
Pandemonium Brake Kit(c) How to install on XS650

Two kits will be required for an XS1100 standard. The XS650 is single brake.

There are lots of upgrade options. Have a look at this:
Fishhead Big Brakes

[jetmechmarty]

If you have the skills the job can be done with a little $50 drill press, hacksaw and file.

If you don't have the skill, the Pandemonium kits are about $40 per side.

[TopCatGr58]

I've made conversion plates for a couple of XS's, one to fit Blue Spot calipers to XS Special forks, and the other to fit twin pot slider calipers to Standard forks. They look similar to the plate Marty shows. The Blue Spots needed the disc spacer shown in Marty's pic.

If you have the skills the job can be done with a little $50 drill press, hacksaw and file.

Hey Tom,

Was that just a bolt on bracket that fits the Special forks, or did you have to do some modding to the forks as well? I did a Mod to my special forks and it involved a fair amount of modding of the forks along with making a custom bracket also....fitted a pair of IIRC FJR600 dual piston calipers to mine!

Would like to see a link if you posted about it on your UK site!?

T.C.

[TomB]

Here the blue spot caliper brackets are half finished
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And finished
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The step was done by holding the bracket on a bolt through the hole and the bolt held in my lathe chuck. The forks these were for were 5K7 which are the same as XJ11 sliders, the only difference to Special would be the hole centres, no mods to the forks were made. All the outside edges and radii were filed by hand.

[TomB]

I havn't really got a decent photo of the twin pot sliding calipers' bracket, I made them out of 5mm stainless plate, they're really strong with no flex.

Heres the only pic I have showing them a little

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tom,

Thanks for those, however now that you mention it, your forks/sliders are the same as XJ forks which are quite different than Special fork/sliders that use the wonky swivel calipers.

When you said Special forks....I was thinking you were talking about the 79-81 series that had the swivel calipers....not the 81MNS and 82XJ fork sliders!

Yeah, I/we wish Yamaha had made the Specials like the XJ's from the get go, then an upgrade conversion wouldn't have been so difficult.

Here's the one I did with assistance/guidance from Crazy Steve and others on the technical aspects. It's an advanced MOD, not a simple bolt on design, and non reversible unless you get other special fork sliders.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ial+fork+brake

T.C.

[TomB]

My bad!

Yeah sorry about the confusion, whenever talking to you lads about the 5K7 Sport I simplify things by calling them a Special as that the nearest thing they are, and you guys never got the Sport so might not know what I'm on about. (you missed a good'n)

Some major engineering on your caliper bracket, nice work, they look like same calipers I used, I found the 11/16" M/C too big for them.

I think I would have gone for different forks instead of your major works, I can defo see why Downshift is thinking of it now. I guess it was one of those "who says I can't upgrade my brakes on these forks"