79 xs11 special NOW Electrical issues

[tyhodge07]

Are you saying without the rpm cluster the warning lights won't work?

Last night I finally got around to jump starting it, push start wouldn't work with it hooked to the battery. I jumped at the starter and it fired right up. Once I remove the cables it would die and not stay running. This was with the old solenoid and also the new one I ordered. Any ideas

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ty,

You say the push start button wouldn't work with a jumper battery connected. Did the neutral light come on when you turned the key on?

When you jumped the starter directly you bypassed the ignition main switch. For some reason power isn't getting through. Removing the gauge shouldn't affect this.

T.C.

[bikerphil]

Are you saying without the rpm cluster the warning lights won't work?

The warning lights I mentioned are in the tach itself, if you remove it they won't work right?

[tyhodge07]

I bypassed at the solenoid to the cable running to the starter to get it to turn over. Which did the job of getting it to fire up. But once unhooked it would die. Do I need to have a full battery to keep it running? And it was started in neutral

And my warning lights are in the middle of the 2 tachs. It's like neutral, turn signal, and low fuel if I remember right.

[bikerphil]

On the 79 Special, the turn signal, oil pressure, and headlight failure lamps are in the center pilot box. Neutral and fuel are in the tach.

[tyhodge07]

That's right. I remember now, lol. I'll open it up and see how its wired and go from there. Shouldn't be to hard.

[TopCatGr58]

I bypassed at the solenoid to the cable running to the starter to get it to turn over. Which did the job of getting it to fire up. But once unhooked it would die. Do I need to have a full battery to keep it running? And it was started in neutral

And my warning lights are in the middle of the 2 tachs. It's like neutral, turn signal, and low fuel if I remember right.

Hey again,

Our bikes will NOT run without a battery on the system, the alternator is battery powered, without the battery attached the alt will NOT generate any power, no power for the bike or ignition system=dead! You can have a moderately weak battery....ie. still makes 12 volts but may not have enough oomph to start the bike without dropping too low of voltage, so the jumper battery can then help get the bike started, and once it's running, you should be able to take the jumper leads off and with the other battery on the system, it should keep running. Just remember that it won't necessarily be able to charge because it doesn't reach charging potential until around 2k-2500 rpm.

With regard to the pilot box, you can change the wires so that the neutral light could be in the pilot box, same for the low fuel if you want it. I can't recall if you removed/bypassed the headlight relay or the RLU, so you wouldn't necessarily need the headlight warning light. I would suggest keeping the OIL warning light!

T.C.

[tyhodge07]

I'm just gonna buy a new battery since I need one anyways. If this doesn't work, what about the magneto and where could I find a cheap one it it happens to be that.

[tyhodge07]

I'm just gonna buy a new battery since I need one anyways. If this doesn't work, what about the magneto and where could I find a cheap one it it happens to be that.

When I search, is the ignition stator the same thing. I'm not 100% I need it, but like to be ready just in case. And not sure what I would need to replace. Assuming it the coil rotor part or whatever on the left side of the motor.

[tyhodge07]

Just bought a brand new battery. Once I get home and done from treating my woman to lunch I'll see what changes it makes.

[tyhodge07]

It starts but have to jump from pos line to solenoid to the red solder joint and hold down the push start to keep running.

[TopCatGr58]

Okay,

During starting the TCI(Ignition Module) routes full power to the coils for easier stronger starting. Then once the bike is actually running, it's supposed to route the power thru the Ballast Resistor to drop the voltage down to about 9v to keep from burning up the oem coils. If the ballast resistor is faulty/cracked and not carrying the current, then once you let off of the starter button power tries to run thru the BR, but can't and so the bike dies.

The BR is along the top left of the engine just under the gastank, a little aluminum piece with 2 wires going to it from the harness. You can TEST this by unplugging the BR and plugging the two wires on the harness side together and then start the bike and see if it will keep running when you let off of the starter button. IF it does, then the BR is bad, and you will need to replace it. You can't run the engine very long this way or you'll burn up the oem coils. Now if you put on aftermarket hi power 3.0 ohm coils, then you permanently bypass the BR.

Next, get yourself a multimeter if you don't already have one....a few bucks at Harbor Freight, and then set it on VOLTs, put the leads on the battery, fire the bike up, gently rev it up to ~2500 rpm and hold it there for a few moments and see what the voltage shows....should be ~14.5 V if the charging system is working properly. IF only around 12 or less, then it's not charging, and there are some other tests to be done to determine if it's just the Regulator/Rectifier that's faulty....more common......or a damaged ALT coil windings or field coil windings....more rare. Also, if you haven't you need to check the large white connectors behind the main fuse block that come from the ALT to see if they are damaged/melted, corroded....pull apart, clean, dielectric grease and reconnect....or repair if needed.

Also, hopefully you performed the Pre-Installation/Use of the new battery and put it on a 2 amp charger overnight.....this gets you the best strength/capacity of your new battery before you put it in use.

T.C.

[tyhodge07]

Hey. Thanks for the info. I'll try to could (if I remember right by what you said). I just feel like whatever is supposed to keep the charge isn't working. I checked the plugs behind the fuse block and they were all clean and. Nothing wrong with them.

[tyhodge07]

Tried what you said, didn't work. I took the cover off on th left side and the blue wire was torn inside the insulation. Didn't really change much other then it being able to run without holding down the push start. Still have to hold the jump at the solenoid to keep it to stay running and for the push start to work. I popped the cover off on the right, it looks pretty dirty. Is there a way to clean this and would it could that help with the charge problem?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey again,

I'm no electrics guru, so hopefully 3Phase, Crazy Steve or some others with more knowledge will see this and chime in!?

Steve has posted some great diagnostics guides in the tech tips.

The dirtyness inside the ALT cover isn't necessarily a problem, the ALT is a NO Brush/no contact type charger, so the dirt/dust really doesn't cause a problem.

Did you say you are PUSH STARTING the bike!? You need to test the solenoid, and possibly replace it, you should be able to start the bike with the electric starter.

You need to be a bit more specific with your replies as to what you tried, and the results. Were you able to put a voltmeter on the battery and get the bike up to 2500 rpm, and still only see 12 volts? With the key on, take a thin feeler gauge and see if it will stay/attract to the ALT side which would indicate the field coil is powered and creating a magnetic field. The way the ALT works is the field coil creates a magnetic field...then the ROTOR spins around it breaking it up which creates waves of magnetic energy to go thru the outer ALT Stator Windings....this creates pulses of electricity....AC, which goes thru the 3 white wires to the Reg/Rect, there the R/R changes the AC power into DC power which then feeds/charges the battery.

If you have magnetic field in the field coil, but no power, you'll need to test the Stator windings for shorts...ohms between the 3 sets of white wires of the ALT, as well as checking for ohms between the white wire and alt case.

T.C.