Shift Pawls

[donebysunday]

Had a Feeling (not that kind) that things were not going to be good inside my trans. So I bought a good trans from Andreas, THANK YOU SIR !!!!!
The sift pawls in my trans are so worn I wonder if the shift drum is gone too ?

[bikerphil]

Those are the shift forks and I doubt the drum is damaged unless those small nubs are badly worn down.

[donebysunday]

Those are the shift forks and I doubt the drum is damaged unless those small nubs are badly worn down.

Nubs look nice and round number 2 looks like new !
By the shown movement in them some thing was moving around in that trans maybe the gears ? Take a look at those dogs !!!!!
Now that trans Andreas sent me everything looks almost new, so I will be using it.
That write up about shimming the gears up tight sounds exhaustive but like it's something that should be done. I thought I was just going to move the washer and do a light dremel touch up ? ? ?

Thank You !

[bikerphil]

I would leave the drum, use the new shift forks and do a dremel touch up to the dogs/slots on the 1/4 and 2/5 gear sets. I would also move the washer over to the other side of 2nd gear. Any other shimming shouldn't really be necessary.

[motoman]

I would leave the drum, use the new shift forks and do a dremel touch up to the dogs/slots on the 1/4 and 2/5 gear sets. I would also move the washer over to the other side of 2nd gear. Any other shimming shouldn't really be necessary.

+1....... 'bout covers it..

[trbig]

-1... lol.


Post a pic of 2nd gear and the dogs. DON'T grind them if they don't need them. Dremmeling the gears cuts through the case hardness of them. Unless 2nd gear is pretty bad, moving the washer to the other side just about doubles the gear engagement. If it wasn't skipping before, it'll never skip after the washer swap.

So, I have to disagree here and say that if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. I consider the gear fix a necessary evil to fix skipping gears, but only as a last measure, not a preventive maintenance.

[bikerphil]

Yep, they would have to look pretty darn pristine for me to leave them alone.

[donebysunday]

-1... lol.


Post a pic of 2nd gear and the dogs. DON'T grind them if they don't need them. Dremmeling the gears cuts through the case hardness of them. Unless 2nd gear is pretty bad, moving the washer to the other side just about doubles the gear engagement. If it wasn't skipping before, it'll never skip after the washer swap.

So, I have to disagree here and say that if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. I consider the gear fix a necessary evil to fix skipping gears, but only as a last measure, not a preventive maintenance.

Thank You !

Hope this shows up clear enough !

[trbig]

That gear by itself off the shaft is 5th gear. Those 3 dogs engage the slots on the gear next to it which is 2nd gear. If at all possible, could you get a closer pic of the dogs there on 5th and the slots in that 2nd gear? You've got a pretty close pic of 1st gear, and I wouldn't mess with it. It still looks good.

As I said, by moving that washer to the other side of 2nd, you basically double the gear engagement, and even a bike that is just showing the first signs of skipping, I think the washer swap without grinding on the gears would fix it.

If you guys could see what happens to these gears after you grind them and run them a while, it'd probably scare you like it does me. Sure, the fix gets you back on the road, and I've done lots of hard miles after the fix, but you look at the misshapen lumps of metal that have squished and formed to the slots, I don't understand how they still work. Grinding takes off all the hard stuff and leaves the soft metal underneath. Grinding gears that don't need it is a bit like going to the dentist and getting a healthy tooth ground down and a crown put on to ward off possible future cavities. Grinding is simply a last-ditch effort to save the gears.

[bikerphil]

Those look like the older type gears with no dovetail machining on the dogs/slots. They do look like they are in good condition though.

[DGXSER]

That damage to your shift forks is most likely from a PO standing on the shift lever to hold the gear in place so it would not skip. I've seen a couple like that before.

As for the gears, they look about brand spanking new. But they are the original style gears with no back cutting. Now the big question, are you a cruiser type of rider, never go over 3k rpm, never really hit the throttle hard, or are you looking to use the torque and power these engines generate?

If your a cruiser style of rider, your gears will be fine with no work done, maybe swap the washer on 2nd gear. A fellow local XSive has over 80k on his one owner SG, been from Cincy to Cali and all around the states on it. Never had any problems with the gears. Also never been over 5k rpm, and since I have known him, never saw him accelerate hard.

Now, if your looking for that power and torque this bike can and will produce when prompted properly by the twisting thing in your right hand, well then you may want to consider a preemptive strike. IMHO, Go ahead and back cut those gears now to save yourself the trouble in the not so distant future.

So it is a matter of choice and how you plan to use the magical machine.

[donebysunday]

That gear by itself off the shaft is 5th gear. Those 3 dogs engage the slots on the gear next to it which is 2nd gear. If at all possible, could you get a closer pic of the dogs there on 5th and the slots in that 2nd gear? You've got a pretty close pic of 1st gear, and I wouldn't mess with it. It still looks good.

As I said, by moving that washer to the other side of 2nd, you basically double the gear engagement, and even a bike that is just showing the first signs of skipping, I think the washer swap without grinding on the gears would fix it.

If you guys could see what happens to these gears after you grind them and run them a while, it'd probably scare you like it does me. Sure, the fix gets you back on the road, and I've done lots of hard miles after the fix, but you look at the misshapen lumps of metal that have squished and formed to the slots, I don't understand how they still work. Grinding takes off all the hard stuff and leaves the soft metal underneath. Grinding gears that don't need it is a bit like going to the dentist and getting a healthy tooth ground down and a crown put on to ward off possible future cavities. Grinding is simply a last-ditch effort to save the gears.

Thank You !
Yes it's one of the older trans that had used the double row bearing.





I'll take more if needed, not sure of the detail on these ? TIA ! Done };~)

[donebysunday]

That damage to your shift forks is most likely from a PO standing on the shift lever to hold the gear in place so it would not skip. I've seen a couple like that before.

As for the gears, they look about brand spanking new. But they are the original style gears with no back cutting. Now the big question, are you a cruiser type of rider, never go over 3k rpm, never really hit the throttle hard, or are you looking to use the torque and power these engines generate?

If your a cruiser style of rider, your gears will be fine with no work done, maybe swap the washer on 2nd gear. A fellow local XSive has over 80k on his one owner SG, been from Cincy to Cali and all around the states on it. Never had any problems with the gears. Also never been over 5k rpm, and since I have known him, never saw him accelerate hard.

Now, if your looking for that power and torque this bike can and will produce when prompted properly by the twisting thing in your right hand, well then you may want to consider a preemptive strike. IMHO, Go ahead and back cut those gears now to save yourself the trouble in the not so distant future.

So it is a matter of choice and how you plan to use the magical machine.

I'm one that likes to crank on it 1/3 of the time.
I learned back in 79-86 that the 11 needs special treatment, so my procedure.
When cold starting warm it in neutral, turn it off, put it in 1st, grab the front brake, restart, it will want to jump forward as the clutch frees up, go easy the first 1/2 doz. blocks, saves the hoods ears too, don't want any bad vibes ! Have to stop, I leave it in 2nd, take off in 2nd. When I hit the main road I will not be run over even starting in second. Then every once and awhile I'll stop in 1st look around real good and I'm gone if I happen to be at the head of the line ? Sometimes I'll let the car next to me keep up for a block, then gone with the exhaust sounding like a big cat just wanting to rip the road off.

[motoman]

Since doing the 'dremal' fix on my H's tranny, I have always wondered why I didn't need to do the washer swap. When assembly in place, shift forks kicked the gears over far enough that the dogs were flush with backside of ajoining gear slots. Never figured out if clearances and travel distances were different or what. With that said, I sure some are questioning "why the fix needed in the first place". In answer to that, what I found to be the issue(could of vry well been a catastrophic failure), was upon dissasembly the bolt/washer that holds shaft assembly tight up against that right side inner bearing race had fallen out, who knows when prior to me installing that matching year/model motor. It was ground to a nice tapered point like an oversized mixture screw and rounded on bolt head side beyond recognition(still have it as a conversation piece). I personnally rode that motor for two yrs. before fixing, skipping second gear. Of course, bad shifts had damaged SEVERAL star washers during that period, along with knocking off the opposite side cir-clips of fork shaft and oil pump idler gear floating around grinding on that large shaft bolt laying in sidecase. That shaft assembly floating back and forth kept full engagement of the dogs happening, gradually rounding off the what used to be a nice square edge of the dogs on most of the gears besides second. Interesting that second was the only gear engagement that ever gave an issue though, even when stopped. Any clutch release in second from a stop would hammer the hell out of things. The fix came when I had to push that full dressed sled home exactly a mile having damaged the keeper star washer and dropping out of the pin leaving bike in nuetral with no way of rotating shift pawl assembly....two different times, months apart, and at same location. Least it was fairly flat with little incline. Any ideas as to why this particular shaft assembly and fork assembly had full engagement otherwise? Don't be shy.

[oldnortonrider]

-1... lol.


Post a pic of 2nd gear and the dogs. DON'T grind them if they don't need them. Dremmeling the gears cuts through the case hardness of them. Unless 2nd gear is pretty bad, moving the washer to the other side just about doubles the gear engagement. If it wasn't skipping before, it'll never skip after the washer swap.

So, I have to disagree here and say that if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. I consider the gear fix a necessary evil to fix skipping gears, but only as a last measure, not a preventive maintenance.

¿Will the above same washer location swap give more engagement of the dogs of 1st gear, also; Or is there some other, different "washer" location, or change, that will give greater engagement for the dogs of 1st gear?