Electrical Oddity

[BillyRok]

Why would my brake light be on and stay on when the key is turned on and then when I pull on the brake lever, the brake light goes off and the left rear turn signal comes on and stays on? Front turn signals are unaffected, they stay on when the key is on. If I turn the signals on, neither front signal blinks...left rear seems normal (maybe a little slow) and right rear blinks very slowly. Battery doesn't seem to hold a charge either, hooked up a charger on the 12v/2amp setting...how long can I leave it running? Thanks for any advise you can give.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Billy,

Okay, you've got the XJ11, the most electrically complicated of the XS/XJ series. First of all, it's 30+ years old, and corrosion develops in the connectors in the wiring harness. The first thing we always recommend to new owners is to pull EVERY connector apart, inspect for corrosion, clean with Deoxit or similar contact cleaner, then apply dielectric grease and reassemble. This alone will go a long way in eliminating electrical gremlins.

Secondly, the grounds...not just the main battery to frame, but also the one down low on the engine at the starter motor case bolt to frame below the battery, also the multiple wires attached to the mounting bolt on the Reg/Rect under the gas tank.

There are a few large white connectors BEHIND The fuse panel plate, they are for the ALT to Harness...if badly corroded, can overheat and even melt=no charge! The XJ also uses a BRUSH alt vs. the XS's brushless, and the brushes can wear out, but a bit rare depending on the odometer mileage.

Also the grounds for the turn signals...often they are a loop secured to the light post to frame/fender and also rust/corrode.

Also incorrect bulbs in the turn signals. I think the XJ has running lights up front like the standards and take an 1157, but the rears are just turns, so 1156.

Brake light on could be a stuck switch at the handlebar or foot lever.

T.C.

[jayel]

sounds like a bad battery and dirty ground connections to the tail light/brake light... cross bleeding to the turn signals, clean the connections

[donebysunday]

lights

Why would my brake light be on and stay on when the key is turned on and then when I pull on the brake lever, the brake light goes off and the left rear turn signal comes on and stays on? Front turn signals are unaffected, they stay on when the key is on. If I turn the signals on, neither front signal blinks...left rear seems normal (maybe a little slow) and right rear blinks very slowly. Battery doesn't seem to hold a charge either, hooked up a charger on the 12v/2amp setting...how long can I leave it running? Thanks for any advise you can give.

I would think at 2 amps you could leave it over night at least ? I would check it after a few hours just to see where the charge indicator says it's charged to ?
Sounds like the wires are switched from the brake light to the rt. turn signal, maybe also bulbs were switched to automotive bulbs which are not the correct amp. draw, got to go to Yamastealer to get the correct bulbs to make them work. Or your connections are just dirty or loose ?

[BillyRok]

An online search shows a few varieties of DeoxIT, does it matter which one? And the only "cleaning" required is spraying DeoxIT on the contacts...don't need to try to clean up contacts with emery cloth or something?

Grounds question: I painted the frame with POR 15 and of course painted the contact surface where the ground wire connector lays so the connector doesn't touch bare metal like before. Will the bolt contacting the ground wire connector and then the threads where it screws into the frame sufficiently ground things or do I need to remove the paint down to bare metal?

Lastly, what is the best way to determine if the battery is any good? I'm not quite yet to the point where I can fire the motor up.

Oh, the signal bulbs are the same ones from before I disassembled the bike and they all worked OK then.

Thanks again for your help.

[TopCatGr58]

Remove the paint on the ground contact points. There is a special type of copper impregnated electrical grease that I like to use for this type of connection vs. regular di-electric grease.

http://www.alternatorparts.com/Copper.htm

This copper stuff helps the electrical contact and also provides the moisture/corrosion barrier. If you don't get/use this, then after cleaning the frame ground contacts of paint, reconnect the wire/bolt, and THEN apply the grease onto the outside of the connection. Regular di-electric grease is an INSULATOR and can inhibit electrical conductivity, so you don't want it between the ground wire and the frame! With the other harness pin/tube/slot type connections, there's plenty of friction to push the grease away from the metal when they are plugged together, so putting the regular dielectric grease on them is fine. You actually don't want to use the copper stuff in multi-pin connectors...can cause a short between connectors!

I can't tell you much about the Deoxit, but I would think just the regular stuff.

You can your battery to a autoparts store and have it load tested. Most 2 amp chargers have an autostop feature to protect the battery from getting overcharged....or are you talking about just a trickle/ battery tender type charger vs. a real full sized auto battery 6/2 amp charger??

T.C.

[BillyRok]

Full size battery charger, the lowest of the settings is for 12volt and 2 amps.

[BillyRok]

The battery is now charged and reads 12.6v on the multimeter. I get a reading of .20v at the wire connectors going to the left rear signal and a reading of .70v at the connectors going to the right rear signal...is this significant? The right side socket looks like it's been replaced (shiny inside and wire colors don't match diagram) left side appears to be original and kind of corroded inside. I pulled it off and have it soaking in evaporust. Am I on the right track?

[TopCatGr58]

The battery is now charged and reads 12.6v on the multimeter. I get a reading of .20v at the wire connectors going to the left rear signal and a reading of .70v at the connectors going to the right rear signal...is this significant? The right side socket looks like it's been replaced (shiny inside and wire colors don't match diagram) left side appears to be original and kind of corroded inside. I pulled it off and have it soaking in evaporust. Am I on the right track?

Well, if the turn signals were supposed to be ON when you tested them, then those values would be significant...you should see close to 12 volts at the power leads of the turn signals. You shouldn't see any voltage when they are OFF.

IF you've cleaned the frame ground contacts of paint, then you would be on the right track. Still would suggest cleaning the harness connectors.

T.C.

[BillyRok]

OK, here's an update - sorry in advance for the length but trying to give enough info for someone to help me with this.

I cleaned up the paint on the frame where the grounds connect, metal to metal contact now. Then I sprayed DeoxIT on all the connections and used dielectric grease on all before reconnecting. The socket for the left rear signal was cruddy, overnight in evaporust and it looks like new. The battery is in the bike and I had it hooked to the charger, turned the charger off and left it overnight with the cables still hooked to the terminals. Turned the key on this morning and no lights, horn, computer display...nothing. Voltage at the battery terminals showed 12.58 volts. So I hooked the charger back up for a couple hours on 12v/10 amp setting. Once I had juice back in the battery, here is what happens.

- 4 ways with key off: 3 blink, front left signal is off.

- 4 ways with key on: 3 blink (slower than with key off), front left signal stays on.

- right signals: both work, and left front signal/running light stays on.

- left signals: rear signal blinks, front stays on, and right front signal/running light stays on.

- With key on, both tail light and brake light are on (pulled lens off to verify). Stepping on brake pedal has no effect, pulling front brake lever causes left rear signal to come on as well as the left signal indicator on the dash.

Here is the XJ wiring diagram...

[IMG][/IMG]

Any ideas as to what could be causing these issues? This wiring/electrical stuff is way over my head but I'm trying to learn from you guys who know your stuff.

As always, thank you.

[Prothec]

I would start by pulling the headlight and look at the connections for the front brake switch and signals... and re-check between changes..

[3Phase]

Argh! My eyes!

Billy,

Try unplugging the Computerized Monitor. Assuming you haven't mixed up any of the Tail/Brake/Turn/Ground wires at the one of lamp sockets, the Monitor is one of the things that's shared between the Tail/Brake/Turn circuits.

Do you have a manual for the XJ1100J? Page 6-3 in the PDF version has a fairly simple circuit overview schematic:-



Click to download the 2110 x 1680 size image


Follow the Brown wire from the 20 Amp Signal fuse and it supplies power to:

Signal relay
Flasher self-cancel unit

Front and Rear brake light switches

Tachometer
Computerized monitor
Warning light
Horns
Neutral lamp

The Brake and Tail lights both run through the Computerized Monitor so the appropriate warning light will let you know if one of them fails.


The Neutral lamp goes to ground on the Sky blue wire that runs down to the Neutral switch.

The Sky blue wire is also shared by:
Starting Circuit Cut-off relay
Side Stand relay
Clutch switch (behind a couple of diodes)


.

[crazy steve]

One common 'problem' that keeps coming up for you is that left front turn signal; coming on when it shouldn't, and not blinking when it should. Something is cross-connected there....

First, make sure you have the correct light assemblies installed, and in the right places. The XJ is unlike the 'other' Specials in that it does have front running lights (or is supposed to). Verify that the rears are single-filament lamps with matching sockets, the fronts should be dual filament with double-contact sockets. Don't just pull the lenses, make sure you check the sockets. For whatever reason, at least some of the front/rear turns for these both have two wires coming out of them, with the rear being turn/ground and the front being running/turn. The fronts use an external ground. You can't tell the fronts/rears apart unless you check this. If you have a 'rear' installed at the front with the ground connected to either the running or turn circuits, that could be it.

If that's not the case, then you'll need to trace wires. Remove all the turn/brake/tail lamps, pull the fuse for this circuit, and disconnect the monitor. Trace each wire (checking for continuity), making sure it only goes to where it's supposed to. Check each wire to the others, this will tell you if they're cross-connected or if there's a damaged spot in contact.

Disconnecting the 'monitor' should kill the brake/tail lights. If it doesn't, then somebody has been at the wiring and you'll have to start tracing.

[BillyRok]

Thanks all for your input so far...

Front sockets are double filament, one bulb has 1157 on it, the other has
12v23/8w on it. These are the same?

Rear sockets are single filament, one bulb has 1156 on it, the other has 1073 and 12v23w on it. These are the same?

I realized I'd skipped the DeoxIT treatment on the tail light contacts and ground as well as both the turn signal and hazard flasher relays so I'm doing that now. If this cures things, great. Let's assume it doesn't in which case I need a little more clarification on your instructions.

If that's not the case, then you'll need to trace wires. Remove all the turn/brake/tail lamps, pull the fuse for this circuit, and disconnect the monitor. Trace each wire (checking for continuity), making sure it only goes to where it's supposed to. Check each wire to the others, this will tell you if they're cross-connected or if there's a damaged spot in contact.

It's been mentioned to unplug the computer monitor. It appears there are 7 bundles of wires going from the monitor into the headlight bucket so I need to unplug all 7 connectors in the bucket to unplug the monitor? Then unplug the connectors in TC's fuse box that run the turn signals AND tail light?

Checking continuity: Set meter on resistance setting, touch probes on wire connectors at both ends of wire, should see zero on the display?

Sorry for what may seem simplistic questions but I know next to nothing about electrical and don't want to assume I know what all of your instructions mean.

And Scott, sorry about the wiring diagram and the resulting damage to your peepers...my bad!

[BillyRok]

More info/changes after the cleaning mentioned in post #14.

4 ways with key off: all blink now, front left is very faint where as yesterday the front left didn't light with the key off.

With the key on, the tail light is on but the brake lights no longer are... yesterday both tail and brake lights came on when the key was turned on.

Everything else is still the same as described in post #14