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  • #31
    That 'six year expiration' on tires is fallout from the Ford Explorer/Firestone tire debacle years ago. In the wake of all the finger-pointing, some testing was done by the Federal government as well as the tire/car manufacturers and that number was agreed upon.
    The British Rubber Manufacturers Association (BRMA) has nothing to do with the US Federal Government, NHTSA, Ford, or Firestone. Everyone likes to make jokes and crack wise about the (allegedly!) lawsuit-crazed US but the BRMA are Yerrpean. Yes, I do know that the Island of Great Britain is merely adjacent to Yerrp and that most Brits don't generally consider themselves Yerrpeans except when it is convenient to do so but Ford and Firestone had absolutely nothing to do with aged tires so there's no point rolling over a four-wheeled US-specific SUV road-speed/inflation pressure/vehicle-instability issue onto a discussion about a two-wheeled motorcycle with one old, used, tyre in the Climate of Tasmania, a totally cool part of the Commonwealth.


    Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
    From your link.......

    "Unfortunately it's impossible to predict when tires should be replaced based on their calendar age alone"

    "Therefore every tire's life expectancy ultimately depends on the environment in which it operates and its individual service conditions. The difficult task remains how to attempt to quantify tire life based on calendar age. Arbitrarily replacing tires prematurely based simply on age may result in tires being discarded before their time, contributing to increased operating costs, as well as waste disposal and recycling concerns."

    "The NHTSA tire aging field study also indicated a strong correlation of the speed rating with tire durability, with higher speed-rated tires losing the least capability with increasing calendar age. Drivers living in hot climates may want to consider purchasing higher speed rated tires than those that came as Original Equipment."

    I'll repeat what I said.... these recommendations came about because they have a vested interest in selling you tires and/or avoiding any possible liability due to failed product, not because they have any definitive proof that tires of a certain age are more prone to fail. Again, if you live in the sunbelt and your tires are exposed to severe environmental conditions, then they're probably fairly accurate as those were the test conditions that produced that number. But if you live in a milder climate, they last longer, and they admit they can't say how much longer.
    Wow, the Commonwealth started the whole bogus aged-tyre/tire issue and you jumped right over it and re-launched a greedy US lawyer and corporation spiel.

    So, in your opinion, no one can statistically prove that a specific tire/tyre will fail after a specific amount of time has elapsed since its original date of manufacture so it's perfectly alright to tell someone else! (someone not you!) to ride a motorcycle in a country that quite probably has regulations specifying the age at which a tyre or tyres should be replaced because in the USA, until more property is destroyed and more people are injured or die it's just smoke and mirrors staged by ambulance chasers and greedy corporations.

    A more apropos example would be buying a motorcycle from a mother with a young child and there is a condom in the fairing. The date code stamped on the open package says that it's only six years old. The seller smiles at her child in fond recollection and says that it was fantastic the last time she rode it.

    A quick visual inspection by you, the new owner, confirms that there is no trace of unusual heat, wear, tear, cracking, or checking. From a strictly mechanically detached and impersonal point of view, the group 'wisdom' says that you should just buy a new rubber but that the old, used one might last for a few more rides as long as you fill it correctly and only use it slowly and carefully because 'everyone knows' that the horror stories about catastrophic failures are statistical exaggerations fabricated and stretched out of whole spreadsheets by unethical lawyers working for greedy corporations to frighten feeble-minded consumers.

    .
    -- Scott
    _____

    2004 ST1300A: No name... yet
    1982 XJ1100J: "Baby" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
    1980 XS1100G: "Columbo" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
    1979 XS1100SF: "Bush" W.I.P.
    1979 XS1100F: parts
    2018 Heritage Softail Classic 117 FLHCS SE: "Nanuk" It's DEAD, it's not just resting. It is an EX cycle.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by 3Phase View Post
      So, in your opinion, no one can statistically prove that a specific tire/tyre will fail after a specific amount of time has elapsed since its original date of manufacture
      It's not my opinion, it's a fact, as a reading of any of these reports/recommendations will quickly show.

      This came up on a Hot Rod site I'm on. Same issue, a limited-use vehicle that may or may not get driven enough to wear out the tires in the 'recommended' time, or people acquiring project cars that have sat for an extended period of time. Many of the same responses although in greater numbers (my 'contrarian' opinion is shared by a lot more responders there... ), but a few interesting things came up. First, there are examples of 'aged' tires failing for no apparent reason; the original poster was upset that one of his tires threw the tread with no warning and heavily damaged a hard-to-replace fender. This was quickly followed with more posts recounting similar incidents of old tires. But a common thread emerged.... nearly all of these were steel-belted tires, as were the Firestone tires that started all this back in the 90s. One poster remarked that he worked in the industry then, and the majority of failures they saw were in the steel belted lines, and he did say that many tire lines were redesigned in the wake of the Ford/Firestone deal; read into that what you will. But back to the 'old' tires, many didn't know how old these tires were when they failed, but the majority were well beyond 10 years old, some over 20 (the tires that started this thread were 26 years old!).

      The second interesting thing that came up is there were nearly the same number of posts recounting similar tire failures on tires that weren't 'aged', but well within the 'recommended' time frame. Again, just antidotal evidence...

      I'm not saying these studies or recommendations are valueless; if you take the time to actually read and digest them, they offer plenty of information to help you make an informed decision as to whether or not your tires are reasonably safe. But the assertion that a tire that's safe at 2189 days 'magically' becomes unsafe at 2191 days is patently foolish....

      One more point; all these tests were performed on car/light truck tires, and I haven't seen any documentation that states that these results or any parts of them are directly transferable to motorcycle tires. While they share some aspects of construction and use, there are considerable differences, as the bike tire manufacturers are quick to point out when 'dark side' tire use comes up..


      ...because 'everyone knows' that the horror stories about catastrophic failures are statistical exaggerations fabricated and stretched out of whole spreadsheets by unethical lawyers working for greedy corporations to frighten feeble-minded consumers..
      You said it, I didn't........
      Last edited by crazy steve; 07-28-2013, 02:20 PM.
      Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

      '78E original owner - resto project
      '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
      '82 XJ rebuild project
      '80SG restified, red SOLD
      '79F parts...
      '81H more parts...

      Other current bikes:
      '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
      '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
      '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
      Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
      Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by 3Phase View Post
        A quick visual inspection by you, the new owner, confirms that there is no trace of unusual heat, wear, tear, cracking, or checking. From a strictly mechanically detached and impersonal point of view, the group 'wisdom' says that you should just buy a new rubber but that the old, used one might last for a few more rides as long as you fill it correctly and only use it slowly and carefully because 'everyone knows' that the horror stories about catastrophic failures are statistical exaggerations fabricated and stretched out of whole spreadsheets by unethical lawyers working for greedy corporations to frighten feeble-minded consumers.

        .
        And for heavens sake, what ever you do, do not inflate the back tire to 40 psi.

        Comment


        • #34
          Steve,

          I believe you about the hot rod tires and car/light truck tires because I've read similar if not the same articles. Sticking tires in an oven and then running them on a test wheel sounds like a fun gig if you can get it but, as you said, motorcycle tires are different and there are only two of them (okay, Fred runs with three! ), not four!

          Except for rider feedback on the storefront websites I haven't seen a comprehensive motorcycle tire test that I'd trust any farther than I could pick up and throw its author(s). A stock XS11 with one rider is pretty close to its GVWR and the tire max load ratings. My stock XS11 '80G weighs... (looks up old thread):-

          Without fairing and saddle bags:
          My XS11 is 843 lb (382 kg) or 247 lb and 23% below its max GVWR

          Long Trips

          You said it, I didn't........
          LMAO!

          I really don't ride that much or that hard but until recently I went through two or three pairs of tires a year. I did buy four pairs the year a bad tire pressure gauge allowed me to ruin a perfectly good set of ME88s by overinflating them. For being such a complete and total bonehead I sent a personal 'thank you!' note to the factory for making a tire that didn't kill me due to my own stupidity and I bought another set of their tires!

          Out of the rest of the tires some were better than others but one pair of Lasertecs I could almost feel change and become less 'tireish?' after riding on them for less than eight hours in the desert. They looked kind of messed up after they cooled off too so I got rid of them and bought different tires.

          I'd pay good money to sit safely behind a bar with a cold one and watch someone try to air one of those puppies up after eight years, much less ride it anywhere.

          Originally posted by CaptonZap View Post
          And for heavens sake, what ever you do, do not inflate the back tire to 40 psi.
          Now you know perfectly well that's only dangerous if you mix up the carburetor slides and install them in the wrong order!
          -- Scott
          _____

          2004 ST1300A: No name... yet
          1982 XJ1100J: "Baby" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
          1980 XS1100G: "Columbo" SS Brakes, '850 FD, ACCT
          1979 XS1100SF: "Bush" W.I.P.
          1979 XS1100F: parts
          2018 Heritage Softail Classic 117 FLHCS SE: "Nanuk" It's DEAD, it's not just resting. It is an EX cycle.

          Comment


          • #35
            It's funny, one other thread I saw on the hot rod site rather clearly illustrates the differences environmental conditions cause.

            The 'northern' guys envy the southwest for their rust-free sheetmetal; what's available to them is usually rusted-out for the bottom six inches at least....

            But the southwest guys have to get their rubber/plastic parts out of the north; anything older than about fifteen years there has had those parts baked by the sun until they're pretty much unusable.
            Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

            '78E original owner - resto project
            '78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
            '82 XJ rebuild project
            '80SG restified, red SOLD
            '79F parts...
            '81H more parts...

            Other current bikes:
            '93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
            '86 XL883/1200 Chopper
            '82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
            Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
            Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by crazy steve View Post
              The 'northern' guys envy the southwest for their rust-free sheetmetal; what's available to them is usually rusted-out for the bottom six inches at least....


              If only it was just 6"......
              Nathan
              KD9ARL

              μολὼν λαβέ

              1978 XS1100E
              K&N Filter
              #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
              OEM Exhaust
              ATK Fork Brace
              LED Dash lights
              Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

              Green Monster Coils
              SS Brake Lines
              Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

              In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

              Theodore Roosevelt

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by natemoen View Post
                If only it was just 6"......
                What no woman has ever said... lol..


                So seriously you guys.. The tire age thing has been hashed out pretty well. You either agree with the general consensus or you don't, and don't even agree it's a concensus. The REAL questions are... What's the best tires and oil for these bikes?
                Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                Current bikes:
                '06 Suzuki DR650
                *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                '81 XS1100 Special
                '81 YZ250
                '80 XS850 Special
                '80 XR100
                *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by trbig View Post
                  The REAL questions are... What's the best tires and oil for these bikes?
                  The best answers to those questions are round and slippery.
                  Marty (in Mississippi)
                  XS1100SG
                  XS650SK
                  XS650SH
                  XS650G
                  XS6502F
                  XS650E

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by trbig View Post
                    The REAL questions are... What's the best tires and oil for these bikes?
                    You always have to be the baiter don't you.....
                    Nathan
                    KD9ARL

                    μολὼν λαβέ

                    1978 XS1100E
                    K&N Filter
                    #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                    OEM Exhaust
                    ATK Fork Brace
                    LED Dash lights
                    Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

                    Green Monster Coils
                    SS Brake Lines
                    Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                    In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                    Theodore Roosevelt

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Yet another Anecdote for the collection.

                      Hey Canal,

                      I'm a little late to this party, you may not even be reading it anymore after the dissertations were posted?

                      My bike (81SH) was parked in '92 with a fairly new Dunlop Elite II on the rear. I resurrected the bike in 2000. Being on the cheap, and still rather "DUMB" in the ways of the XS11 and bike tech in general, I kept the almost NEW looking rear on it. I rode locally for 1 year just to get reacclimated to riding. The next year I took it on a few rally runs. I live in southeastern Virginia....we see decent hot summer weather, mildly cold winter weather, many hundred thousand population and cars/ozone, but near the ocean, so actually almost never any real SMOG!

                      1 rally to Alexandria Bay, NY and back, then to Asheville, NC and back, then the next year to IIRC Pennsylvania and back, and then to northeast Georgia. The tire was a bit HARD, and when I was running the twisties and decelerating it would occasionally break loose a little...slide, but I was still learning my twisty navigating skills, so I wasn't necessarily pushing it to the limit. But when I arrived after the day long superslab run TO the rally point, I had finally worn the tread down to the nub! I got up early the Saturday AM, and went into town and got a new Elite II put on it. What a total difference in the handling! It was like I was riding on rails, so smooth and no slip and slide action at all...and by this time I was pushing the bike near to it's or at least MY handling limits...a few muffler and peg scrapes for sure.

                      I'm one of the folks that will AGE a tire well before I wear it out, only putting on a few K miles a year if I'm lucky! I don't run it as a commuter, too friggin' dangerous around this metropolitan area with the idiot cagers and such! A couple of years ago I replaced an otherwise still respectable amount of tread on a 6 year old rear tire. Partly because I now knew the feeling of new rubber, and also I had worn the sidewall a bit due to too wide a profile.... a 140/90 instead of the 130/90 and was raised white letters sidewall.

                      From what I've been told/informed by Trbig is that Dunlop changed their tire formulations so that they only last about 1/2 of what they used to last. SO instead of getting close to 10K miles, I'll be lucky to get 6 out of one, which will actually be better, because I'll finally wear it out before it dries/hardens up! And because of the reduced durability/longevity, I too will be switching to the cheaper brands since they only last about 6K also, will be much cheaper and I'll still run and get new sticky tread every few years.

                      YMMV, but I can understand keeping and using the "old" tire to try to get more value out of it...as you said since you don't push it to it's limits, and ride responsibly, allowing plenty of following and stopping distances, etc.!

                      T.C.
                      T. C. Gresham
                      81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                      79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                      History shows again and again,
                      How nature points out the folly of men!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by TopCatGr58 View Post

                        From what I've been told/informed by Trbig is that Dunlop changed their tire formulations so that they only last about 1/2 of what they used to last. SO instead of getting close to 10K miles, I'll be lucky to get 6 out of one, which will actually be better, because I'll finally wear it out before it dries/hardens up! And because of the reduced durability/longevity, I too will be switching to the cheaper brands since they only last about 6K also, will be much cheaper and I'll still run and get new sticky tread every few years.

                        Keep dreamin'.. and riding! lol. You'll get at LEAST 8k out of that tire. I used to get 14-16k out of them riding aggressively. A friend up in Tulsa (Bob Embrey) on his XJ rode pretty easy and he had over 20k on the rear of an E3. So there's still a chance it'll rot on you instead depending on where in Dunlop's downhill run you got it... lol. For the price of that one E3, that now you'll only get 7-9k out of, I can buy almost 3 of the Shinko 712's. Even if I only get 5k out of them, I'm still way ahead on money vs mileage and I keep fresh rubber on the ground, as TC pointed out. BUT.. I change my own tires, so it's not going to be as good a deal for someone who pays someone else to do that for them. That's half the cost of getting a new tire in some cases, and can be as much as a new 712 itself.

                        On another note, Metzler just introduced a new 888 Marathon Ultra. Supposed to get the best mileage of any bike tire.. Period. Their words, not mine. It's a little cheaper than the Dunlop Elite 3. Someone go out, buy one and wear it our for us really quick, will ya? lol.
                        Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                        You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                        Current bikes:
                        '06 Suzuki DR650
                        *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                        '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                        '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                        '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                        '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                        '81 XS1100 Special
                        '81 YZ250
                        '80 XS850 Special
                        '80 XR100
                        *Crashed/Totalled, still own

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          I just got a new Avon tire for my front and had the forks rebuilt with progressive springs. I asked the guy at the motorcycle shop to check out the back tire and if he thought it needed to be replaced I'd do it. The guy *sells tires*. Said the back tire was fine, lots of life left in it, there's no checking, dry rot, hardening, yadda yadda. My bro in laws that ride looked and it and said it looks great. The date code on it is 1089, March 1989. It's a Bridgestone Spitfire 11R that has somehow side stepped the space-time continuum or something. I'm imaging some early 90's Gen X-er jamming out to Nirvana and accidentally riding my XS11 through a worm hole into the future. I've put 660 miles on it this year. It gets a little squirrely in the cracks but otherwise rides fine. I was trying to look up the tire but there's very little info on it because (it predates the internet and) it's been updated by several models, but I did find one guy trying to sell one on ebay Might not be as old as mine, but it's still gotta be old, like swing in the back yard for the kids old.

                          I'm hoping to get a new back tire in the fall, but I need to get this new job lined up and get a couple checks rolling in first.
                          1980 XS1100G ( ATK Fork Brace, Progressive fork springs, XJ1100 shocks, Offset Handle Bar Risers, Yamaha Fairing , Vetter luggage set )

                          SOLD - KZ650 ( '77 Engine, '78 frame, 80's ignition, MAC 4-2 exhaust, Pods )

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Tires manufactured before 2000 used a different code system. Last 3 digits will tell you the week and the year, 08 is the week, 9 is the year (1999). This system was used in the assumption that a tire would not be in service for more than 10 years. Still pretty old to be running.
                            Last edited by bikerphil; 07-31-2013, 10:21 PM.
                            2H7 (79) owned since '89
                            3H3 owned since '06

                            "If it ain't broke, modify it"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Ed's tire story

                              Back in the 1980s there was a fuss about certain Firestone car tires blowing their treads off, so much so that anyone showing up at a tire shop with one was given a new, same size, different tire at no cost. No receipt needed, regardless of how worn.
                              My friend Ed heard of this exchange and this is his story:-
                              " I had 4 of those on my station wagon, when they wore bald I replaced them and tossed the old worn ones in the back yard.
                              Then I heard about the replacement program so I hosed them off and took them in and they gave me 4 new ones. Best tires I ever bought."
                              Fred Hill, S'toon
                              XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
                              "The Flying Pumpkin"

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The Firestone tire debacle that I remember was two fold. It was determined that the failed tires had been run at low pressure and they had been mounted on SUVs with collapsable roofs. That's the way I remember it.
                                Marty (in Mississippi)
                                XS1100SG
                                XS650SK
                                XS650SH
                                XS650G
                                XS6502F
                                XS650E

                                Comment

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