Transmission

[BA80]

I don't know where that washer came from but it doesn't belong there. Was it there when it was disassembled?

The shoulder of the bolt seats up against the bearing race. I know some have said you don't need Loctite on the threads here but I always use some just as a safety precaution.

[trbig]

Tod, git yer mind out'a the tranmisison and let... I mean, you just ain't right, man!

I know several others that have that same assessment of me.. lol.


As for that washer.. yes, it goes there. It presses against the bearing race and the bolt pulls that shaft to keep it held against the right side of the case there. (Collar #90387-443A8-00) As Greg said, I like to use either loc-tite on that bolt, or use a chisel and ding the threads of the bolt towards the top so it makes it tough to tighten all the way in, but when it does, it doesn't come out on its own.

[BA80]

I know several others that have that same assessment of me.. lol.


As for that washer.. yes, it goes there.

I know you ain't right.

I don,t remember that washer between the bearing and bolt shoulder on any of the trannys I've worked on. It's not shown in the parts fiche either. I just looked.

[trbig]

I don,t remember that washer between the bearing and bolt shoulder on any of the trannys I've worked on. It's not shown in the parts fiche either. I just looked.

They started putting it in there in '81. The XJ's have them also. Maybe something they addressed because of them backing out? Same part number on the bolt all the way through the years.

[BA80]

Ahhh......OK. It shows it as a collar in the parts fiche for the 81. It also shows what the call a washer plate in there too that I've never seen.

[trbig]

That washer plate goes up against the case from the inside, then the bearing, then the circlip. It can't come out to the outside. You wouldn't see it unless you pulled that circlip and bearing. Not sure why they started putting it there though. Maybe the alignment in the early transmissions wasn't quite right? I've had several transmissions I've seen from earlier bikes with broken teeth on the main axle pinion gears. I have never seen that from an XJ transmission.

That bolt head has a very slight shoulder on it that when you suck the bolt up against that washer, it will center the washer in the right place.

[tarzan]

That washer plate goes up against the case from the inside, then the bearing, then the circlip. It can't come out to the outside. You wouldn't see it unless you pulled that circlip and bearing. Not sure why they started putting it there though. Maybe the alignment in the early transmissions wasn't quite right? I've had several transmissions I've seen from earlier bikes with broken teeth on the main axle pinion gears. I have never seen that from an XJ transmission.

That bolt head has a very slight shoulder on it that when you suck the bolt up against that washer, it will center the washer in the right place.

That makes sense now.I have two trannys apart.The one I'm working on is an 80.The other is the 81MNS, which is the tranny I'm using. I couldn't find the other washer, so was a bit confused there. So should the shoulder of the shaft be sticking out from the bearing?Or does it look right being a little recessed?I'm guessing recessed,since the older ones didn't have the washer, hence pulling the bolt to the shoulder of the shaft.

[trbig]

That shaft has a collar that fits snug up against the bearing. If that collar is snug, it's as far as it is going to go. But yeah, thinking about it, if the shaft protruded some, there would still be some slop in that shaft after tightening the bolt.

[3Phase]

Taking too long to type up the Reply....

The spacer was added to the 1980 and later bikes when Yamaha started to use a narrower bearing for the transmission output shaft (Yamaha-speak = drive axle). It's not as wide as the '78/'79 ball bearing (single row instead of double row, I think) so they added the spacer to keep everything lined up.

Tarzan, you can use a dab of grease to hold the spacer in place while you tighten the bolt.

When everything is aligned correctly, the end of the output shaft (drive axle), the inner bearing race, and the two different stepped portions on the head of the special bolt will all pull together and touch when you tighten the bolt. In an ideal world that makes the three separate parts (shaft(axle)/race/bolt) into one solid assembly that won't come apart.

You can add LockTite to the bolt but only do that after you've torqued it to 51 ft/lb (7.0 m/kg) anad checked the transmission at least once. Turn the transmission input shaft (Yamaha-speak = main axle) by hand while shifting through the gears to make sure everything is aligned correctly and the gears don't hit each other. When you're absolutely certain that everything is correct, then you can R&R the special bolt to add LockTite.

.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tarzan,

I don't think your question was fully answered though!? You are using the XJ tranny parts, but they are going into your 79 engine/case, so you would NOT use the newer countershaft bolt and separate washer. You would use the OEM large head/washer bolt all in one. You have the OEM larger/wider bearing in your engine case, the actual countershaft should be the same whether you are using the XJ's or the 79's. The fancy 2 part bolt is for the newer XJ engine case with the narrower bearing.

Scott, I don't know if he really needs to put the full 51 ft/lbs on that bolt just to do a test manipulation of the gears? I would think just enough to keep it from spinning loose during the test would be sufficient. Then as you said, remove, apply the locktite and the reinstall and torque to spec.

T.C.

[BA80]

Sorry Tarzan, TC your right. We did kinda hijack the thread didn't we?

Tod might have a good point about the later models having those 2 extra parts though. If you are using the XJ shaft and both of those parts are there I would go ahead and use them. The 80 and earlier trannys don't have them and I have heard of more than one backing out.

[tarzan]

I appreciate everyone's help and thoughts. I will go ahead without the collar/washer and just install the bolt.it sounds like and looks to me like that is the correct way. Thanks guys

[trbig]

Just to clarify...The gear shafts are all the same for all the years. The only thing that's different on the inside of the case is the difference between the early bikes that had just a bearing and/or the later bikes with the bearing/plate washer. Either bearing setup will set your gears in the right place. And honestly, thinking about it today, I don't think I've got that washer under the head of my bolt on the outside of the case there. But there was one there when it backed out on me the only time it has.

I think about the only way you could maybe mess this up is if you put an early bearing in the case with the plate washer.. but then the circlip wouldn't fit, so it's about fool-proof.

[3Phase]

I see the light!

Oh, man! You're right, T.C.!

Sorry about that, Tarzan! I've got a brake caliper rebuild going on and I missed that you're using an early case with its wider bearing!

As everyone's telling you (and you picked up!), lose that last spacer ring and just use the special two-step bolt.

The inner part of the bolt touches the end of the shaft, the outer part touches the inner bearing race and it'll draw everything together into one harmonious whole when you torque it down... theoretically. Relax and consider the terrible beauty of a compact flower of metal shavings surrounded by an veritable sea of oil upon the floor filled with a bounty of snapped clips and chewed up gear dogs whilst chanting the magic phrase, "Nnngng! No-o-o-o-o-o-o-o!"

Okay, you don't have to torque the bolt to 51 ft/lb when you check the transmission but it should be close so you know it's going to work. I tossed in the torque spec so you wouldn't have to look it up when you're done and ready for LockTite 'cause everyone always asks.

[DGXSER]

And to answer the question of the shaft in your picture, it is not all the way into the bearing yet. It does however look to be lined up correctly.

Install the bolt, let the threads grab the shaft and pull it into the bearing. If it takes much of any force on a half inch drive sized ratchet, something is not correct, you should not need to torque on it at all to get it to pull in.