oil running from exhaust

[CMA1]

As you know, I am new to biking and these bikes.
I have some XSperience with motors in cars, boats and small engines etc, though and I think 'pretty simply' sometimes.... but here is a suggestion....
If there is no smoke, the oil isn't getting into the combustion chamber (if it is, it is such a small amount that there is no smoke)
If as you say 'oil is pouring out the exhaust' .... I would get the head X-rayed (?) if it is worth the cost to you. It sounds like there is a crack in the head between the exhaust port and an oil gallery.
But first check to see where the Crankcase vent line is routed and make sure it is not kinked, plugged or ???? whatever.
In the Clymer manual,page 45 fig 80, there is a warning about using the valve adjusting tool... "Do not allow the cam lobe to come in contact with the valve adjusting tool as it may fracture the head......"
Of course everything has been torqued properly, in the correct sequence (?) right?
I hope I am wrong after all the work you have done
Work carefully and let us know what you find.
CMA1

[DEmily]

CMA1,

Everything was torqued properly, in the correct sequence. I understand the importance of this step, as my father was a mechanic by trade and had me in to auto motors before my 13th birthday. Built a few hotrod motors myself actually. I am concerned that the cracked head theory could be correct. I did not use a valve adjustment tool when I put in my shims, I simply took the measurments, purchased the needed shims and removed the cams to replace the shims. . The thing that kind of makes me crazy is that it seemed when that cylinder was not hitting from the bad coil, the oil was not coming out of the exhaust. The oil had to be pumping up to that particular valve even if the cylinder was not hitting. Now that it is hitting the oil problem occurs. Only when the cylinder takes the explosion does it lose the oil. This is going to be a serious issue, I can just feel it. I have spent so much money and time on this thing and if I am looking at a head issue, I can pretty much kiss all this time and money good bye. I have no idea where to find another head. I'm doing good enough just to find standard wearable parts. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[John]

Dan, here's a point to ponder.

Did you have a buddy working with you? Is he a practical joker? Any chance he poured some oil in the muffler? Any oil coming from the combustion chamber, or the exhaust port will be burned and smoke will be evident. As hot as the header pipe gets, there is no way the oil would not be burned. Have you removed the entire exhaust system, and inspected the pipes, and muffler? Run some carb spray through the affected pipe to flush any residule oil from it. Slosh it around real good, and drain it out and let it dry, or blow it dry with compressed air. Check inside the exhaust port for oiliness. Reassemble it and run it some more. See if the problem reappears. I work with a bunch of immature a$$#oles, and this something they would do, and from what I've read here, I can't see how any oil would escape being burned in the exhaust port, or in the pipe itself. I too just reconditioned a cylinder head. I sandblasted the outside of it, cleaned the valves, and replaced the valve seals. I used a small fine wire wheel in a drill and cleaned out the combustion chamber, and intake and exhaust ports. I lapped the valves in and reassembled everything. I did a leak test with some carb spray, and the valve seats didn't leak. Anyway, having all this fresh in my mind, I can't see how you could have any oil getting into the pipe, or exhaust port, and not be burned. Even if the valve spring seat, the thin washer that the valve springs sit on, was omitted, and the head cracked,the oil would leak into the exhaust port and get burned, or the exhaust pressure would leak into the head through the crack, and would possibly burn the oil in the valve seat area. Maybe you should remove the exhaust valve and inspect the area closely for any signs of exhaust gasses escaping into the head. If you should need a head, e mail me and we can discuss it. I have a spare. It is from an XJ11, but it will work just fine. Good luck.

[Jacobite]

I'm new to the forum. I just fell heir to a 1981 XS 1100 special. A model of bike that have admired for a long time. When it was built I was riding a 1976 Honda CB360T. I have owned several bikes since then, including a Yamaha 1100 Twin.

Enough about me, the bike I now have wasn't run for several years. The last time it was run, it was filled with oil - right to the filler cap. The bike smoked a lot ( so they tell me) then died. It hadn't been run since.

I took it home, cleaned it up - cleaned out the gas tank, cleaned the carbs, cleaned the plugs, changed the oil and charged the battery. I put some fresh gas in it and it started. The problem(s?!) is it has very little power. It will only rev up to about 5000 or 6000 rpm (would have been lots in my twin!), it is also blowing oil out the exhaust (with some smoke, but not a lot - the smoke seems to be coming from the oil in the pipes). I checked the plugs, and three seem o.k., but one is wet.

I know that the overfilling of oil can cause damage in several places, but any thoughts on where I should be looking? The oil had gas in it when I changed it, I assume from aborted attempts to get it started.

The bike is not in bad shape overall, and as it was given to me I don't mind spending some time ( & a bit of $$) on it to get it in running order. (plus I like playing with mechanical things - don't know what I'm doing, but I don't let that stop me).

I really like the looks of this bike, and have lots of ideas for it - but need to get it drivable first.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, and I'm sorry if this is not the appropriate thread for these questions - but as I also have oil coming out the exhaust I thought I would start here.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Jacobite,

Congrats on a great bike, but then again I'm prejudiced, see my handle!!! Okay, on cleaning the carbs, did you take them apart, not necessarily from the bracket, but pulled the bowls, the floats, the valve seats and filter screen, the jets, the emulsion tube, the slides and rubber vacuum diaphragms. The 81 carbs have sealed and preset pilot/idle adjusting screws under little round brass caps on the top front edge of the carb necks where the attach to the intakes boots. If they are still sealed, then you could not have done as thorough a cleaning job as possible. Those caps can be drilled out and removed safely so as not to damage the pilot screws underneath. Then you can remove the screws, careful of the metal and rubber washer on the ends, as well as the delicate tapered tips, then you can truly clean out the pilot circuit!

This model also has a fancy hose rig that connects the petcocks to the carbs called the OCTOPUS, it's a vacuum controlled valve that will not allow fuel to flow if the motor isn't running, but it can go bad, corrode, and so you could be starving for fuel. To test this, you can turn the petcocks to Prime to bypass the octopus, then if the bike has more power and will rev to 8.5k, then you know it's from a fuel starvation! I and many others have just bypassed the Octy, your choice!

You said that 1 plug was wet!? Gas wet, or oil wet? If gas wet, then you could have a flooding carb, the valve seat not sealing, a leaky float. Could also have a bad plug wire, you can swap the wire with the other wire that is paired to the bad one, follow the wire to the coil, then just swap it, they both fire at the same time. If the wet plug moves to the other plug, then you know the wire/cap/plug is bad!

Next, take the left timing cover off, inspect the advance unit for free easy movement and return, both by hand, and also by applying suction to the vacuum hose which should be attached to the special metal nipple on the #2 carb itself, NOT the carb boot!! Make sure the hose is intact, no holes, cracks, etc. Also inspect the intake boots, even if cracked, the inner layer can still be intact. When running, spray some WD-40 or carb cleaner around the boots and listen for engine sound changes, if you hear any, then that boot may have a leak, either in the boot, or the seal at the engine!

As for overfilling the oil, I don't believe you can hurt the XS engine much that way, just get a lot of oil into the carb filter box via the crankcase vent. The P.O. may have not actually overfilled it as much as one of the carb's float needle valves may have gotten stuck, and so gas over flowed the carb, into the intake, into the piston chamber, and down into the oil chamber. You said you had already changed the oil, so you just need to check to make sure that fuel isn't flowing to the carbs when the petcocks are turned to OFF as well as left in ON, cause the Octy is supposed to stop this when the engine is off, but if it's still leaking fuel from the petcocks into the supply output nipples, then you may need to rebuild the petcocks/octy also.

Hope this helps, and don't be afraid to start new threads, folks do it all the time!!

[Ken Talbot]

Actually, TC, it might help if you could split this thread for Jacobite. He's got one common symptom with this thread, but he's also got a number of items that would be worth some follow up specific to his/her situation. Wouldn't want to see anything get lost in the mix-up.

JAT.....

[DEmily]

I am in the process of checking this head over. The number one exhaust valve port in wet with oil. I have dried out the port and cleaned it up. No obvious cracks but of course it may not be visable. I installed a new valve seal and filled the upper part
( where the valve stem seal is) with thin oil and tilted the head slightly so the oil would not drain out through the oil passages. I worked the valve up and down and no leaking. Of course the rpms when the engine is running in much faster. I am leaving it stand for the night. If I am looking at a possible loose valve guide, how can I check to see it the valve guide is loose or moving in the head? Should it be obvious?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Dan

[crawlspace2112]

look at the position of the guide if it is moving it probably won't be where it's supposed to be either more hanging out the top where the spring sits or in the valve bowl, compare it to the valve beside it. push on it see if it moves. shine a light through the guide with the seal off and look at the shape of the guide hole make sure it's not oblong or egg shaped. with the seal off put the valve in and hold the head of the valve in your fingers check for play. the valve should have very little movement side to side it should feel snug in the guide but move freely up and down. when you check the valve with a caliper make sure you move around the diameter and check different spots because they don't wear evenly around the diameter, they are more likely to wear in one spot so check all around the diameter.

[crawlspace2112]

check this page out

http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/showschematic.asp?dept_id=646185

there is an o ring (#6 is the o-ring)situated under the guide's collar (#'s 7 & 8 are the guides) so the guide can only come out through the top. look real close for a loose guide. bikebandit has some pretty good schematics for these. new guides through them is $16.96 each. here is the site
http://www.bikebandit.com/partsbandit/Default.asp look under oem parts for schematics.

[DEmily]

Oh Man

Well..... It looks like the Vavle guide in number one has moved or something. It is not sticking out as far into the valve well as the others, although number four is almost the same, but not quite. The valve guide it's self seems to be fine on the inside. It is not out of shape, It has no more play then any of the others, which is very little if any, and the valve travels smooth through it. It does, however, appear it is not in as far as the rest.

The original reason for the rebuild was my brother who was the PO, let the chain get sloppy and the chain jumped and bent all the valves. The intake valves were bent big time but the exhaust were almost not detectable. Can I assume this is when the valve guide moved?

It does not seem to be loose. I put a socket around the guide from the top and tapped on it with good force but not enough to damage it and it did not move. The measurements were exactly the same. I suppose this means I will have to change the valve guides.

Can the old valve guide be reset in place? Could a propane torch heat that one valve guide up enough to reset it? If I have to change the valve guide will I have to change them all? I figured once the head was heated up real good, the other guides may not set back in. I don't think I can afford to spend any more money on this thing for a long while. My better half is already insane about the money and time I have spent to date, and still needing more. She is not a happy camper.

Damn I want to ride!

[Geezer]

Completely strip the head and put it in an oven and heat it up to 400 degrees. It’ll be up to temperature in an hour or so. Get out your oven mitts and pull the head out and set it on a flat board that will evenly support it. Then you should be easily able to reseat the guide with a valve guide punch.

If you don’t have a valve guide punch you can easily turn down a brass rod to make one. Don’t use a steel punch unless you’re absolutely stuck.

Geezer

[DEmily]

Greeze,

Man if this works the wife and I will have to meet up with you on a ride and buy you a BIG beer. Do you think it will reseat? Everything else on this bike is new. I am ready to do it right now. I guess I'll have to wait until the morning. Thanks for giving me hope!!! You are the man!! I'll let you know how things go.

Keepimg my fingers crossed.

[crawlspace2112]

i would probably take the guide out first and replace that o ring and fix the number four at the same time, save yourself the hassle and expense of another head gasket. i just bought a full engine gasket kit and it has these o-rings in it but i didn't have to replace the guides so i don't need them. i could have used crank, shifter, clutch and output shaft seals which cost me just as much as the gasket kit (total $300 canadian eh). total for engine to date is $694 canuc buc and i did my own valve job, honing, head planing and second gear fix. oops, here i am crying over spilled money. the point is do it right this time and save the $$$. the oven idea is good, the o-ring should be able to take it you can use a little A9 aluminum lube or reasonable facsimile to help it back on the seat. this will stop the harder guide from gaulling up the aluminum. the interference fit should be around .006 so it will be quite snug. if you can find a press it would be better.

[DEmily]

Sorry Greezer, I missed a key on the keyboard. I had to slam down a few seven and sevens after I discovered the deal. Thanks again!

[DEmily]

crawlspace,

Man you guys know your sh!@. I feel alot better about this deal having such a quantity of resources like you all. I'll owe you a beer too!! I have new o rings so I will do the deal in the morning and let you all know how things went. Maybe I'll have the honor of riding with you guys some day soon. Thanks a ton!!~!