Quick Counterbolt/clutch basket question

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there IIININIII,

First, just a word of warning, do NOT try to run the engine with the ALT cover off, it holds an oil galley plug in place, and will BLOW out and dump 3 quarts of oil all over your garage in about 15 seconds! Secondly, do NOT loosen or remove the 3 allen bolts of the ALT cover.

Okay, you rebuilt the topend. Did you drain and refill the MIDDLE DRIVE gear oil??

If you or a PO hadn't been in the engine/transmission, then I can't see that bolt coming loose. It's factory torqued to ~50ft/lbs. From what I can remember, it's only been after folks have done their dremel fix, and didn't get the bolt and washer properly centered and torqued which then allowed it to work loose. Some folks recommend using blue locktite on it when reassembling after the dremel job.

Hope you find a simpler easier problem to fix.

T.C.

[DGXSER]

Yes, you can pull the clutch cover without draining the oil. Yes that bolt is under the clutch. Red Arrow below.

I agree with TC. I have pulled the gears out of several engines and never put locktite on that bolt. Thousands of miles on the engines with no issue with that bolt ocming loose. So, unless you pulled the gears out and did not get the washer back in correctly or torqued the bolt correctly, probably not the issue. Now another issue I have seen more than once, is the C-Clip coming off the shift shaft end that holds the oil pump idler gear in place. Green arrow below. Then that idler gear can slide around and rub where it should not. Good news is, its under the same cover. Bad news is you still need to pull the clutch to see it.

[Rasputin]

If you think it may be that bolt the it is easily got to by pulling the right clutch cover and the assorted bits that hold the clutch basket in. They can come loose due to vibration or other issues but like TC says unless someone messed with it all should be well.
Any oil you spill by doing the check/clutch on the side stand will wipe up with a cloth. If there is a whole bunch of oil you are over filling it.
I have 2 brand new old stock bolts here if yours is pooched so not to worry much about that. Last one I had loose on me was so worn I thought the new bolt could not possibly be the correct one. It is and I am amazed the old one did not destroy clutch basket during it's journey.

[trbig]

I've had that washer headed bolt back out on me before, and yes, the sound was intermittent. The gear on the back of the clutch basket must be a very hard metal, because it'll chew one of those bolts to shreds and not leave a scratch on the basket gear. It WILL introduce a whole lotta metal shavings throughout the motor though. The bolt can't come all the way out due to it hitting the basket, so it does have a tendency to really muck up the bolt hole threads where that bolt goes. I just re-tapped the aluminum with a new(sed) bolt.

One of those washer headed bolt spares always makes it into my emergency tool kit on road trips. Doesn't take up any room and that would definitely be an unobtainable bolt on the road.

[IIININIII]

Thanks!

You guys all rock! Great advice from everyone!

Last night I put the bike on the center stand and rotated through each gear while listening (with the screwdriver, pretty good technique!) All I could hear was the clutch plates rattling around a little while settling from the rotation. No grinding. No odd noises.

Pulled the cover off the alternator and nothing there. Pretty solid actually.

I will pull the cover off the clutch this weekend. Gotta squeeze it in between 4th of July family time and my daughter's birthday. (I spent WAY too much time in the garage last winter playing with it and gotta spend some time with family before my wife leaves me
I agree that it should not be loose if I haven't touched it, but I can't speak for the PO. It suppose it is possible that the clutch plates are slipping a little but it sure doesn't feel like it. My intuition tells me something is loose because it feels like just the right conditions are necessary i.e. speed, vibration.

BTW, this is my first real bike. The PO had no idea what he had on his hands as he had bad valves and was losing serious compression. Carbs were all screwed up too. I got on it and realized that even though it was running like crap it still had a LOT of balls. The rebuild worked great. I let a friend ride it the last week and he came back with a white face. All he said was "uh, I think this bike is a little too much for me."

Rasputin, thanks for the offer I will keep you in mind...was sweating where I was gonna find one.
T.C. thanks for the input. I will take a look at the c-clip as well while I am in there.

[IIININIII]

Okay, you rebuilt the topend. Did you drain and refill the MIDDLE DRIVE gear oil??
T.C.

No i did not.

I have a looong list of to do's on it.

[skids]

One of those washer headed bolt spares always makes it into my emergency tool kit on road trips. Doesn't take up any room and that would definitely be an unobtainable bolt on the road.

Once bitten - twice shy???

[Rasputin]

I looked to see what the part number was on the package I have for the bolt. It was illegible so you would have to look it up. When I was looking I realized I have only 1 new one and plan on keeping that but I do have a few in motors that have not been removed. So I still have some just not a brand new one to offer. Sorry

[trbig]

i looked to see what the part number was on the package i have for the bolt. It was illegible so you would have to look it up.

90105-10085-00 bolt,washer based

Once bitten - twice shy???

I've been bitten so many times, I'm past the shy part. You should have seen my emergency kit when a buddy of mine and I went east out to Maryland. His bike was a 79 model and mine the 82, so I had parts for both of them like pistons, rings, the guts out of both types of carbs, gears and assorted parts, etc.. lol. One full saddlebag full of tools and parts, and I can put two gallons of milk in one of the saddle bags.

I don't travel like that any more though. The list has gotten much smaller.

[IIININIII]

darn

I spent late last night tearing the clutch apart to find...nothing. I measured tthe springs and they were ok. The plates were a little worn but still well above spec. The bolt was tight and the ring clip was still on the pump gear.

Someone had definitely been in there before me though as the lock washer was already bent back.

Took it for another ride and the noise is still there, coming and going depneding on how I throttle (mostly in 4th). I am at a loss and will have to get someone more knowledgeable involved.

I will check the timing chain today as it kinda sounds like a zipper pulling against metal. I just didn't expect the sound from the timing chain to come more from the right side.

[BA80]

Are you sure your not just hearing the noisy straight cut gears in this tranny? They do whine pretty good normally.

[trbig]

Have you checked the cam chain adjustment lately?

[IIININIII]

Have you checked the cam chain adjustment lately?

Will do that tomorrow. When putting the spring plate back on somehow I over-torqued one bolt and it snapped. I suxors. Had to order a new one on ebay (9.99 for the whole clutch assembly, not bad).

Really, the cam chain or a bearing are the only things I can think of that are left.

[BA80]

Will do that tomorrow. When putting the spring plate back on somehow I over-torqued one bolt and it snapped. I suxors. Had to order a new one on ebay (9.99 for the whole clutch assembly, not bad).

Really, the cam chain or a bearing are the only things I can think of that are left.

There are a couple of tranny bearings you can check and replace if necessary without a teardown. However, they are both on the left side.

[trbig]

Sounding like a zipper sounds like a chain. The cam chain and the hyvo are the only two. Hopefully it's the cam chain...