oh no! the dreaded oil thread

[kflyboy]

Oil Thread

couple of the techs at the local Yamaha dealer were going on and on today about all the "wonderful " virtues of rotella t oil in the new bikes. I asked one of them about using it in my '80 xs1100 special and he just mumbled something about "not sure in an old bike" so I stopped listening(my bike is older than him). so, anybody use the stuff for any length of time? noticeably better/different than yamalube or any other bike specific oil? thanks

My 80G has 72,000 mi. on it. Tried the Yamahalube 15-40 once. Could barely shift the tranny. Drained it and re-filled with the Castrol 20-50 or the Valvoline 20-50 4T motorcycle oil. Have had no problems with the motor or the tranny since. Change the oil and filter every 2,000 miles. I buy the oil by the case at Oreill"ys when they have a sale on it. Seems to work the best for me.

[Bonz]

I am an admitted oil whore (go from one oil to the other) and have run Castrol Actevo 15w-40, Delo 400 LE 15w-40, Rotella 15w-40, Supertech 15w-40, Delvac 1300 15w-40, in my 80G and 80SG.

All of them shift about the same, and based on oil analysis the Delo 400 LE has the best anitwear package that I have found, especially boron and moly content along with good levels of ZN and P.

The best way to see if an oil is doing it's job is to do an analysis. Granted, if the bike fails in between oil changes, then it's a moot point. In general, I cannot see a lot of difference in UOA's between the 15w-40 and 20w-50 oils.

With Yamaha recommending a 20w-40 for warmer temps and 10w-30 for cooler temps, there is a good amount of overlap between the two.

15w-40 is the same upper end as a 20w-40, I see no reason 15w-40 will not protect an engine to the equivalent of what Yamaha intended. And the 15w-40 has better flow at start up to prevent wear when wear is highest.

[3Phase]

The difference between 15W(n) and 20W(n) oil is how many times and for how long the bypass valve in the oil filter bolt bumps open when the engine is cold and how much spooge gets injected into the oil system when the filter is in bypass.

[MPittma100]

The difference between 15W(n) and 20W(n) oil is how many times and for how long the bypass valve in the oil filter bolt bumps open when the engine is cold and how much spooge gets injected into the oil system when the filter is in bypass.

Good point Scott. Most people are unaware of what the oil filter bypass is or when/how it works.

I block off the oil filter bypass in my race engines. No unfiltered oil EVER gets into the oil galleys. Saves a lot of parts if you have a failure. Down side is when/if your filter gets plugged - oil pressure drops considerably. The key is to be sure to change oil often enough to prevent that.

I suppose the 1100 bypass could be blocked, but would not be very practical.

MP

[Bonz]

Gotta post here if only to bump the thread along!

My 80G project, since I got it on the road in March, had gone through about a quart of oil in about the last 600-800 miles, via the oil control rings as best I could tell. Running 15W-40 Supertech. The bike had very few miles put on it in the previous 7 years by the previous owner, so it was a prime candidate for stuck oil control rings. #4 plug was always darker than the others, so I figured it was the main contributor.

I did a Marvel Mystery Oil soak on all cylinders a couple weekends ago for two days, spun the engine w/o plugs, sprayed in a good dose of penetrating oil, let it sit for another day.

Put the plugs in, fired the old girl up, belched white smoke, settled down into a good idle, rode it for a hundred miles or so with the old oil in the crankcase and did not burn any measureable amount of oil! Went another hundred miles and she was still holding her liquor, per se.

So, changed the oil and filter, deliberately went to 20W-50 Supertech and can unequivocally say the shifting is more positive and smooth than at any point in my life of owning XS1100's and running 15W-40 of any kind.

Put a good 200 miles on the bike in the past 3 days without any noticeable oil consumption, with 140 miles of that at 75-80 mph on the Interstate in 90 degree temps on Wednesday.

The MMO and pentrating oil did the trick on my rings and I have a very happy motor along with being pretty dang happy myself.

In hindsight, I wish I had done one without the other, to know which one was the main factor in unsticking the oil control rings.

So happy I decided to share that with you all!

[motoman]

Gotta post here if only to bump the thread along!

My 80G project, since I got it on the road in March, had gone through about a quart of oil in about the last 600-800 miles, via the oil control rings as best I could tell. Running 15W-40 Supertech. The bike had very few miles put on it in the previous 7 years by the previous owner, so it was a prime candidate for stuck oil control rings. #4 plug was always darker than the others, so I figured it was the main contributor.

I did a Marvel Mystery Oil soak on all cylinders a couple weekends ago for two days, spun the engine w/o plugs, sprayed in a good dose of penetrating oil, let it sit for another day.

Put the plugs in, fired the old girl up, belched white smoke, settled down into a good idle, rode it for a hundred miles or so with the old oil in the crankcase and did not burn any measureable amount of oil! Went another hundred miles and she was still holding her liquor, per se.

So, changed the oil and filter, deliberately went to 20W-50 Supertech and can unequivocally say the shifting is more positive and smooth than at any point in my life of owning XS1100's and running 15W-40 of any kind.

Put a good 200 miles on the bike in the past 3 days without any noticeable oil consumption, with 140 miles of that at 75-80 mph on the Interstate in 90 degree temps on Wednesday.

The MMO and pentrating oil did the trick on my rings and I have a very happy motor along with being pretty dang happy myself.

In hindsight, I wish I had done one without the other, to know which one was the main factor in unsticking the oil control rings.

So happy I decided to share that with you all!

Nice!.........BTW, factory shared that with ALL 35yrs. ago reccomending 20-50w dino.....

[Bonz]

The factory called for 20w-40, but the 20w is the key IMO.

Also called for 10W 30 in cooler temps.

Didnt have 15w-40the back then did they?

In any case a 15w-40 protects just fine based on used oil analysis, but doesnt shift as good in my analysis.

[IanDMacDonald]

couple of the techs at the local Yamaha dealer were going on and on today about all the "wonderful " virtues of rotella t oil in the new bikes. I asked one of them about using it in my '80 xs1100 special and he just mumbled something about "not sure in an old bike" so I stopped listening(my bike is older than him). so, anybody use the stuff for any length of time? noticeably better/different than yamalube or any other bike specific oil? thanks

I use Rotella T5 in my bike. $16/gal. Can't beat that. The determining factor using it was my neighbor is a diesel engineer/mechanic (62 yrs. old), and has worked for NASA, CSX, ship yards, etc., and everything he worked-on had Rotella T oil. The shop down the road from me has been working on and selling Yamaha's since the mid-70's, and obviously only recommends the Spectro on his shelf, lol.

[donebysunday]

I just bought Quaker State Defy, as suggested by a local racer. It has an added amount of zinc. Let you know !
Done };~)

[Bonz]

What weight/grade is the Defy you picked up? I am running 10w-30 in my 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee (204,000 miles), has cut down on the valve cover drip over the course of a couple oil change intervals.

Looking at oil analysis #'s, the zinc and phosphorus for Defy 10w-30 are up to around 1100 ppm each, and more or less in line with the 15w-40 oils and similar, but I have only seen Defy in the 10w-30 wt around here.

If Defy is available in a 15w-40 or 20w-50, then could be a good choice. I would doubt they make it in those weights, as that is where the diesel oils already are.

But it is an SL rated oil, and I do not see any energy conserving symbols (noting the presence of friction modifiers), so could be a good choice for cooler weather riding, if it indeed does not have friction modifiers.

I have seen and felt how my XS's respond to lighter oil and the shifting is sooooo much better with a 20w-50 that I am a believer in it for these bikes.

Your racer buddy is right it has more of the good stuff, but not any more than other oils that we have been using for years and knowing what grade of Defy you are running will be helpful in knowing if it's a legit option for the XS and other cycles in general.

[motoman]

IMO, and from having no issues decades ago with my Venturer using the 'back then' 20-40w, unless bike is outside winter and ridden, still the 20-50w year round is still the best choice. That motor still gets hot no matter the outside temp. Mine sat outside covered the first four yrs. of ownership from new. Still ran the 20-40w, but with a heat lamp under it while under cover, it would most of the time start with -30degree temps. Looking back, and knowing now what I didn't know then, I would imagine it would of started more often if I had turned petcocks to prime. I'm sure those diaphrams in the petcocks were to stiff for any cranking vacuum to overcome. Still rode it many a time at -30degrees the ten miles to work in winter in Durango, Colo. where I bought bike new and lived. Wouldn't do that now, but at 29yrs. old, still invincible and bullet proof.

[Schming]

Hey All, been following this thread, don't ask , but yinz might be interested in the Green Oil, 'member Kendall anyone ?


http://www.penngrade1.com/Default.aspx

A good friend of mine, who uses this oil in his air cooled VW drag beetle has had exceptional results.

On the sites home page click on High Performance Oil Line to get to the motorcycle oil, and yes they have 20w 50 also.

NAPA carries this oil.

[Bonz]

My dad runs Brad Penn oil in his Corvair, good stuff according to those guys that have Corvairs.

What is the point of diminishing returns in terms of zinc/phosphorus content? My arbitrary rule of thumb based on oil analysis has always been anything in the 1000 ppm-1200 ppm is good, 900 ppm and lower is not desirable, but what about higher zinc/phosphorus than 1200 ppm?

[Schming]

My dad runs Brad Penn oil in his Corvair, good stuff according to those guys that have Corvairs.

What is the point of diminishing returns in terms of zinc/phosphorus content? My arbitrary rule of thumb based on oil analysis has always been anything in the 1000 ppm-1200 ppm is good, 900 ppm and lower is not desirable, but what about higher zinc/phosphorus than 1200 ppm?

As far as my friend has informed me the more ZDDP the better

In this following link read under Applications as it explains the reason for ZDDP and IMHO why it's necessary for our vintage engines:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

Just to throw something else into the mix check these sites out:

http://www.auto-rx.com/

http://www.steelshieldtech.com/mainpage/

I use all three in all my vehicles and Yes, My Mileage Has Varied

[Bonz]

Zinc and Phosphorus are really important in our engines, even in most modern motorcycle engines they are still running flat tappets.

Even using non-energy conserving motor oils from our 4 wheeled friends is not advisable unless the Zinc and Phosphorus content of the oil is known to be what we need, becuase those have been cut back a lot with the advent of pickier emissions systems and roller tappets.

Back to the question about Quaker State Defy... What weights is it available in? The analysis of 10w-30 shows it has good amounts of Zn and P.

It's not that Defy has any more of the good stuff our cycles need than a good 15w-40 or 20w-50 that is bought from the same shelf, it is that the Defy has MORE than newer SN rated oils and thus is on par with what a typical 15w-40 or 20w-50 would contain. Defy gets the SL rating, as the elevated Zn and P levels are technically not approrpriate for newer vehicles, although evey vehicle rated for SL oil has a catalytic converter to my knowledge!