Hmmm, big clearance on one intake valve.

[bikerphil]

how do you get the head off with the camchain running up the middle and not wanting to let it drop down off the crank gear?

You can just let the chain drop down in there, it can be retrieved with a magnet later. It is simple to get it back on the crank sprocket, it'll go right back on while looking down there with a flashlight to see what you're doing.

[Rasputin]

Could try pushing a piece of rope into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and then turn it by hand and see if that would gently push it up. You would have to be on the compression stroke to make sure not to damage anything else. That way if you encounter resistance you can stop. Can't stop easily with the starter or engine running.

[Courtney]

True Rasputin; this is the intake valve side, and I'm tempted to come up with some gadget that will go in the spark plug hole and have a bend enough to push up on the intake valve. Your idea of rope is brilliant. I could put the rope in the sparkplug hole as its just coming up to the compression stroke. The final upstroke of the piston would push the rope against the valves (if I stuff enough in) and put pressure on the intake. Hmmmmm. I've never turned the engine backwards with wrench though (against the direction of the arrow on the timing plate). Could I do this to relieve the pressure and then pull the rope out?? without damaging anything? I thought it might make the cam chain jump?

[Rasputin]

As long as everything is correct with your timing and valves no damage should happen if you turn the motor backwards.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Courtney,

No aspersions on Rasputin's mechanical experience, but these valves are NOT very strong with regards to their shafts! That's why they can get bent with just having both valves on the same cylinder open at the same time, just the pressure of one being pushed against another already open while turning the cams is enough to bend the valve. SO...even though rope is soft, the valves are not in a straight VERTICAL position to the piston, but at an angle, so you would have lateral or skewed vector forces pushing against the head of the valve....and could cause it to get bent!

I vote for rotating the engine to open the valve to it's maximum, spritzing more PB blaster or other solvent of your choice, allowing it to sit for a few days, soak...perhaps stuff a rag or paper towel that could hold more of the solvent against the valve stem/rust vs. just letting it drip/run off, and then try rotating the the engine/cams/valves to see if it will move farther up into the head.

Then, as has been suggested, crank the engine with the starter a few revolutions and see if it hammers closed? If it's close, then actually start it up, and see if running it will finish cleaning and blowing the rust out. Then perform a compression test and see if it's close to the others. If it's way low, then you know the rust is still either embedded in the valve head/seat or has eaten and pitted either too much, and you'll then need to tear it down anyways. But you might get lucky.

The Manual provides the technique for removing the cams. I first find TDC with the timing indicator, then I rotate the engine 180 degrees out, THEN access the 1st set of cam sprocket bolts...they will be UP in the easier to reach/access position. Once you remove 1 from each sprocket, then rotate the engine/cams around to TDC to access the other cam sprocket bolts, remove them, slide the sprockets off the cam shoulder, this provides the slack in the cam chain. Then remove the cam caps and nuts, and then the cams. I used a wire coat/shirt hanger opened and bent around the chain and secured it up while removing the head just so I wouldn't have to fish it out from the cam well. There are cam alignment dots on the cams along with the timing plate marks to help you put it back in time when reassembling.

The big trick/concern is to ensure that you have the chain ON and around the crankshaft sprocket. Folks have done just their CCT tension adjustment with the bike not on the centerstand and the chain has slipped off around the crank sprocket, yet because it had a tight fit....it would still rotate with the crank and the cams would rotate, so it seemed like it was all right, until they actually tried to start the bike, then the crank would slip, cams get out of time and ALL of the valves would get bent!

So....taking the bottom oil/tranny pan off to be able to truly visualize the cam chain on the crank sprocket teeth would be adviseable....YMMV!

T.C.

[Rasputin]

Hey Courtney,

No aspersions on Rasputin's mechanical experience, but these valves are NOT very strong with regards to their shafts! That's why they can get bent with just having both valves on the same cylinder open at the same time, just the pressure of one being pushed against another already open while turning the cams is enough to bend the valve. SO...even though rope is soft, the valves are not in a straight VERTICAL position to the piston, but at an angle, so you would have lateral or skewed vector forces pushing against the head of the valve....and could cause it to get bent!

I vote for rotating the engine to open the valve to it's maximum, spritzing more PB blaster or other solvent of your choice, allowing it to sit for a few days, soak...perhaps stuff a rag or paper towel that could hold more of the solvent against the valve stem/rust vs. just letting it drip/run off, and then try rotating the the engine/cams/valves to see if it will move farther up into the head.

Then, as has been suggested, crank the engine with the starter a few revolutions and see if it hammers closed? If it's close, then actually start it up, and see if running it will finish cleaning and blowing the rust out. Then perform a compression test and see if it's close to the others. If it's way low, then you know the rust is still either embedded in the valve head/seat or has eaten and pitted either too much, and you'll then need to tear it down anyways. But you might get lucky.

The Manual provides the technique for removing the cams. I first find TDC with the timing indicator, then I rotate the engine 180 degrees out, THEN access the 1st set of cam sprocket bolts...they will be UP in the easier to reach/access position. Once you remove 1 from each sprocket, then rotate the engine/cams around to TDC to access the other cam sprocket bolts, remove them, slide the sprockets off the cam shoulder, this provides the slack in the cam chain. Then remove the cam caps and nuts, and then the cams. I used a wire coat/shirt hanger opened and bent around the chain and secured it up while removing the head just so I wouldn't have to fish it out from the cam well. There are cam alignment dots on the cams along with the timing plate marks to help you put it back in time when reassembling.

The big trick/concern is to ensure that you have the chain ON and around the crankshaft sprocket. Folks have done just their CCT tension adjustment with the bike not on the centerstand and the chain has slipped off around the crank sprocket, yet because it had a tight fit....it would still rotate with the crank and the cams would rotate, so it seemed like it was all right, until they actually tried to start the bike, then the crank would slip, cams get out of time and ALL of the valves would get bent!

So....taking the bottom oil/tranny pan off to be able to truly visualize the cam chain on the crank sprocket teeth would be adviseable....YMMV!

T.C.

While I do agree with most of what TC has said I do not think that turning the motor with the starter is the best method. I will say that patience is a virtue and that you need to do what it takes but be sure of what you attempt before you try it. Caution is your friend here as you do not want to cause further damage. Hand cranking will tell you what you need to know and you have the option of backing off.

[LoHo]

Court, set the crank to T, put zip ties through a couple of the cam sprocket holes over the cam chain to maintain timing (follow the manual and do the "other side" sprocket bolts, give it a turn to T with dots aligned with arrows, then zip tie it), take the cams off, take the head off, and look at what you've got. Doing that will take less time than these half-measures and you'll know it is right when you are done. And who knows what wonders await under the head? The main downside is perhaps messing up the head gasket.

The other way is to let her run and hope for the best.

[mack]

collector Plates

Whats the advantage to having collector's plates?

[DGXSER]

I believe he has said the insurance rate drops by a lot if you have collector plates.

[crazy steve]

Whats the advantage to having collector's plates?

They're usually a one-time purchase (permanent with no renewal fees) and will also get you lower insurance rates most places.

I've put them on a few of my XS's, and also put them on my old beater truck. If you keep the vehicle more than 3 years, they pay for themselves. They do usually have limitations on them though (miles per year, 'not for daily use', etc) so you need to check to see if they're a good 'fit' for you. Enforcement is usually pretty lax, so on a bike you'll rarely have any trouble.

[Courtney]

Whats the advantage to having collector's plates?

In B.C. my insurance goes from about 110 a month (incremental insurance here by CC of motor so 1100 = $$$) to 15 a month. So HUGE savings, and the only caveat is you cannot drive it to work. Other than that, you can do anything with it, including go to the States.

[Courtney]

Court, set the crank to T, put zip ties through a couple of the cam sprocket holes over the cam chain to maintain timing (follow the manual and do the "other side" sprocket bolts, give it a turn to T with dots aligned with arrows, then zip tie it), take the cams off, take the head off, and look at what you've got. Doing that will take less time than these half-measures and you'll know it is right when you are done. And who knows what wonders await under the head? The main downside is perhaps messing up the head gasket.

The other way is to let her run and hope for the best.

Yep, this is sounding more and more like the way to go. Will the sprockets (zip-tied to the camchain) fit down through the head as I lift it off?

[LoHo]

Yep, they easily fit down the engine well. Being a bit paranoid, I tie a string around the cam chain, lift the head off while working the string around, then tie it off on the frame when the head is loose, just so I can keep an eye on the whole works.