Uh Oh, died on the spot

[randy]

Poolboy makes a great point. A few years ago I had a 1-3 plug failure and traced it to a bad TCI box. I was a day away from leaving for Americade, so I bought a used one from a yard to get going. After returning, I re-sweated all the solder joints on my TCI box and re-installed it. It ran fine for three more years until I sold it (and the spare TCI).

If you've never done electronics work, I recommend sending the box to someone with the experience. This type of soldering is delicate. Too much heat can ruin solid state components.

Randy

[maicorider]

Thanks for all the great tips guys!!

I'm pretty sure it's not the fuses or the fuse box. The box looks in great condition, and if it was a bad fuse or conection the starter would not have turned at all (ignition fuse). So now I think it's got to be either TCI box, advance, or possibly a bad ground. I didn't check the main ground, but I did have the bottom of the airbox off while I was tooling around, and could have bumped a poorly connected main ground.

Back to the advance thing, I'm a little confused. my buddy (who's only had problems with timing advnace on his 2 xs11's) says it has to be the advance, but wouldn't it give poor performance condition, not an all or nothing spark condition if the wires were going bad again (it's already had ythe splice fix done to it). I'd really rather not spend the $100 on a new advance unit if I don't need it, but I'd really like to get the problem found soon, as I'm planning a weekend trip with some friends and don't want to be left out or break down 50 miles from nowhere.

I've had a closer look at the battery negative lead and though a bit of it near the frame connection is exposed, there's really no corrosion, and the frame and cable connections seem good, strong, and tight. I gave it a firm working over by hand and it seems good. So now I think I'm looking at either loose/gunky main ground (which I haven't checked yet), or loose TCI connections. I'll wiggle the connectors at lunch today (still have the seat off) and then check the main ground.

1 question about the TCI box. I suspected that initially (before I thought and heard of of all the other possibilities. I took it apart, but the circuit board seems to be no only screwed in, but glued. I removed the one screw on the board itself, and the 2 on the back of the box, and the board didn't want to move, and I wans't about to force it. I've had plenty experience soldering (a friend and I had a little music studio back in the day, and I had to re-arrange a patch panel about 5 times, 48 ports worth), but don't want to ruin a good TCI box trying to get to the connections to check them. suggestions on that?

[randy]

The trick about the TCI box is that the board is held in by the solder connections to the terminals. The terminals are a permanent part of the box. That's why just removing the screws won't loosen the board. To get the board out, you have to desolder the whole bunch of terminals using a solder vac tool.

The sweating procedure I wrote about was on these main terminal connections. I don't have a photo of it, but it's clearly the double row of large solder lands that are adjacent to the plug terminals. Is that clear? The terminals make a 90 degree turn as they enter the box and poke through the board.

Go over each one with a 15 or 20 watt iron and a fresh roll of 60/40 rosin core solder. Use a small diameter solder or the iron will have a hard time melting it. Be careful not to bridge between lands with too much solder. Just make them bright again. If they're really pitted and corroded, you'll have to de-solder them completely to get all of the old solder out and then re-solder with fresh.

Remember, heat is the enemy of solid state components. Use care and caution and don't leave the iron on anything for longer than absoutely neccessary. Let one cool before going on to the next. If I remember correctly, there is a nut or two that are part of the heat sink for the output transitors. Be sure to put them back nice and tight so the outputs don't fry up during running.

Randy.

Maybe if I get time I'll create a post worthy of the maintenance section with photos. I do have a spare box to use. But, do I have the spare time? I'll let you know.

Randy

[maicorider]

Sweet. Makes perfect sense to me. I take a close look at them, and hopefully won't have to touch them, but that's one heck of a good, yet as you say, very touchy idea.

Well, I'm gunna chack that, check the main ground, and give it some good riding this week and see if anything out of the ordinary pops up.

And like everyone says, thanks to everyone here, and the people responsible for making this site possible. If only there were more sites like this one, especially for the older bikes. My buddy and I have lots of old bikes, most of them dirt, and unless you can find an expert from back in the day, trying to get some of the old bultacos, montesas, ossas, huskys running nicely is quite a challenge.

Anyway, thanks again for everyone's input. It still amazes me the graciousness of the XS11 riders. Heck, there's a guy here in town that's called "Harley Bob" (I'm sure you can guess why) and he talks me up all the time cuz I'm out there on the XS, and when I'm in the mood, showing all the other riders in town who's actually riding a superbike, and who's just riding a bike. he he

[MartyA]

When my coil pickup wire went I could crank all day, just would not start. When I repaired it the first time I added a wee bit more wire, but that looped and was touching the timing plate, eventually wore through, so every time I gassed it too much at a stop it would stall. Finally got it right.

'Nother time I rode to work, that afternoon I had a dead bike. Turns out the fuses were at fault. They looked good, tested good, but the tiny contact point in the clips had rusted. I had lights and I think horn, but no go. A quick turn of the fuses got me going again, then I replaced the old fuse clips.

[wildbill]

Do you have a way to check fuses with?I have seen fuses look good but be bad.The main fuse will shut everything off but I think you had a loose conection and when you started checking everything you fixxed it.Keep a eye on it, usually it is something real simple.Keep the rubberside down

[randy]

To check a fuse, use a standard 12V test light. With the key on, you should have 12V at both side of the fuse. If not, the fuse is bad. That assumes, of course that you have mains power???

LOL

Randy

[maicorider]

like I said, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a fuse. the only 1 it could have been was the ignition fuse (had power, all lights worked), but it couldn't have been that one either as the starter was turning. Now I could possibly see a weak connection on the ignition fuse cutting the voltage below what the TCI needs to operate, so I suppose I could double check that I'm getting full voltage on both ends of the ignition fuse. It's so annoying not knowing for sure what caused it. makes a person a bit uncomfortable... you know? I guess I'll have to consider rebuilding the fusebox, but like I've said. the bike is in pristine condition, and has lived in a dry area i think it's whole life. Not too often you find a bike this old without even rust on the exhaust.

[strom]

You checked this tech tip right?

LP

[maicorider]

you know, I have checked the tip, but I didn't thoroughly test everything I can. I suppose I had better check it all before I go spending any money or go on any long rides. Thanks for reminding me to be thorough.

[wildbill]

Originally posted by wildbill
Do you have a way to check fuses with?I have seen fuses look good but be bad.The main fuse will shut everything off but I think you had a loose conection and when you started checking everything you fixxed it.Keep a eye on it, usually it is something real simple.Keep the rubberside down

The reason why I said the above was I used to own a V65 that did almost the same thing as what happened to you.Rode the bike to a store say 5-6 miles away,no problems until I got ready to ride back.The headlight,tail light all that would work,but the bike would not start.Had to load the bike and take it to a shop.Turned out to be the tabs that hold the fuses were spread just a little.That could be what happened to you.The fuses on the V65 were not the glass fuses as on a xs.Might be worth a check. Good luck PS be careful with them{fuse holders}

[maicorider]

FOUND IT!!!!

By using this test in the tech tips section

The next thing to check is the famous broken wire problem in the ignition advance. Since this is such a common problem with the XS11, the odds are pretty good that it may be the source of the problem.

There is a simple way to check the ignition advance wires. Take off the four-wire plug on the ignition unit. Using an ohmmeter, check the resistance between Yellow/Green and Yellow/Red, and between White/Green and White/Red. I measured about 600 ohms. These pairs of wires simply run down to the pick-up coils and loop back to the ignition unit.

While the ohmmeter still connected, rotate the ignition advance unit a few times and move the wires around. If you lose continuity at all, or the resistance changes much, there is a problem with the wires and you should repair them. Since the pick-up coils are nothing more than magnets, there probably isn't much more that can go wrong with them.

I found that wiggling one set of the magnet wires showed an opening. So, I pulled on the wires till the ohm meter showed 0, tried starting, and no fire, anywhere. Now I just need to use great care in fixing the wire as it's broken VERY close to where it enters the black box part of the magnet dealy. (like my technical lingo?)

Anyway, moral of the story, read the tech tips, and do the tests, and find some magical unbreakable wire to use in the ignition advance unit

Cheers to all

Thanks you everyone for your help!!!!

If you're ever coming through SW Idaho, there's a few of us with XS11's. We like to ride'em too!

[bkr]

PU Wires

Hey Maicorider The very wire on your OHM meter will work on the Pick Up's. Radio Shack sell 's it by the inch or foot. Check it out. bkr

[TheDjost]

I would add shrink wrap at both ends to make it more rigid there, so that it has a weak spot in the middle. That'll make it easier to repair next time as the wire won't break near the end.

-Justin

[wildbill]

Glad you found it.Good luck.