Uh Oh, died on the spot

[maicorider]

Well, recently I got the old girl out from under her winter blanket, charged, lubed, did all the nice things for her, and sure enough, fired in a hurry, and has been running like a dream (as she always has) for the past 3 weeks. Yesterday I rolled it out of the garage, started it to let it warm a bit before I went out to enjoy an afternoon of impressing myself with her power, she was idling along, I climbed on, gave her a quick roll on the throttle as if to prepare myself for the fun, and she died. DEAD. No fire at any plug. A friend told me it had to be the timing advance, but I thought as those were going bad, you would notice poor performance for awhile before it actually quit. I looked anyway, and the (a) previous owner had already spliced new wires on the advance unit. So, could it be the advance unit again, and I just need to do continuity tests on all the slpicing done to the wires, or is it something more drastic? I've checked the fuse box, and the fuses seem to be fine. The whole bike is in pristine condition, and has been very well cared for. Could it be the ignition unit under the seat that crapped out on me? I've figured it can't be a coil, as they both would have had to gone bad at exactly the same time since I'm not getting spark from either one (I've tested 3 and 4 which come from different coils). Checked all the coild connections, the 4 fuses on the right side look fine (but I haven't actually tested them on the tester, and the main fuse on the other side also looks good but I also haven't tested it).

Suggestions from you experts are very much appreciated.

it's a 1980 SG (XS-Eleven Special)

[strom]

Could be the TCI, could be poor ground connection from the engine to the frame, could be... bad battery, could be... the connection from ignition coils to the TCI or wherever it goes... the one where two wires from each coil connect to a double connector thats on single wire... just take off the gas tank and see.


LP

[maicorider]

Don't mean to sound uninformed, but as I am, I must. Is the TCI you speak of the ignition unit under the seat? Where is the main ground to the frame? I've got my diagram, and it shows a number of grounds, but one 'main' ground. Could it be any one of these grounds? I did notice the exposed end of the part of the negative battery lead that connects to the frame looks a little crusty. Maybe it's that?

I've already had the tank off, checked the coil connections, even unplugged them all to check for any corrosion. They all looked good. Even the red one that goes one onto two for the coils (the one you spoke of).

Now on to the bad battery option. I have to admit I was bad and didn't periodically trickle the battery over the winter, but I gave it a good charge before I started riding again this spring. I notice that when I try starting the battery does seem a little weak (the starter slows down after 3 seconds or so of turning but 3 seconds is enought for me to give the starter and battery a break on almost any machine.) The fact that I get lights and a turning starter... does that rule out the bad battery issue?

As you can see I like to write a lot even when I have 2 or so questions. Thanks for bearing with me.

Oh, and for a good laugh, without realizing I should have checked the 1980 supplement to my Clymer's manual, I followed the instructions by turning the petcocks to reserve to remove the tank. Apparently on a special this isn't a good idea unless you like having gas running all over everything... lol

[bkr]

Dead Bike

Hey microrider You did not say if you had lights or horn. Check under seat for a black connector with 2 red wires. Main fuse holder. Located by air intake. May have blown.. Good Luck. bkr

[maicorider]

sorry, you're right I didn't specifiy. But I do get lights and everything. I think the main fuse on mine is under the left side cover. a rubber connector with some red wires and a 30A fuse in it, right? That one also looks good, and I get lights, signals, everything like that.

thanks!!

[maicorider]

Sheesh

Ok, so I went home for lunch and had another look at things. Still confused, I thought I'd just give it a turn to see what would happen. And.... insert drumroll .... it started! So, I'm glad about 1 thing, it runs. I'm afraid of another thing, I have no idea what made it stop running, or what made it start again. Now I'm afraid to ride it anywhere, cuz what if it happens again. Do you think it could be old/bad splicing on the timing advance mechanism? That's about the only thing I can think of that could have been "jiggled back into operation". Should I spend the time to re-splice it all since I don't know that's even what happened? Should I just garage it forever because I'm afraid of being stranded? Ok, that last one was just silly.

Ideas anyone?

I have to say, I think the last thing I really checked since I'd last tried starting it is the timing advance mchanism, so wouldn't that seem the most likely suspect? Maybe I should just carry the hardware to re-splice it around with me just in case. would 1 bad connection in the advance mechanism kill all spark to the cylinders?

Ok, I also feel now like I should mention 1 other thing. Very early yesterday I took a very cold ride home after spending a drunken night on a friend's couch. Is there a possibility something got wet from condensation and it just took a day to dry out?

[Pat Kelly]

You didn't inadvertantly hit the kill (off-run-off) switch on the right handlebar did you? I was returing from Big Island Deuce, cruising through Oregon, hands comfortably draped over the bars, when the bike suddenly died! I lifted my hand and it came back to life. Quite the wake-up call.

[maicorider]

he he Valid question. I'm always finding I'm doing something stupid like that and spending days figuring it out. this time that was one of the first things I checked. Plus my SG's starter woun't even turn when the kill switch ins't in the RUN position. So I know it wasn't that, but I still appreciate the idea

[randy]

Try cleaning out the connections at the TCI box. It's a multi-connector plug and it's out back on the fender under the seat so it's prone to getting splashed in wet weather. After you clean the contacts on both the plug and conector, dab some grease on both before you plug it back together to help keep it dry in the future. Hope this helps and it's not something more serious!

Randy.

[maicorider]

Thanks, that sounds like a good idea. I checked the connectors (there are 2 multi connectors into the box) and they looked fine, but maybe a little oxidized. A little cleaning and grease couldn't hurt, right?

[Jerry]

I had a problem on another yamaha, intermittent stop/run. Found a bad fuse...if the filament vibrated the wrong way, bike would quit. Tap on the fuse, or spin it in holder (stock fuse block) bike would run again.

If you still have the original fuse block, change it. Several ways to go are on the Tech Tips page. At least check/replace the fuses, not expensive and it may help!

[sixtysix]

I would get a new battery first before I do anything else, the battery is the life blood of the electrical system and if you get below 10ish volts the bike just won't run. Next even if the fuses look good, sometimes they aren't. Vibration kills glass fuses and the clips sometimes loose tension even though they look good. Here is a great tip at XS11.com that addresses the question 'Why won't my bike start?'

Troubleshooting a bike that won't crank

Just click on the link

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Maicorider,

You mentioned about the grounding strap for the battery looking kinda corroded. A poor ground can discharge a battery and then not allow it to charge back up properly, so although your charging system might be working, it can't get back to the battery efficiently. Like Gary said, check all of those fuses, and then replace your fuse holders. Pull that ground wire off of the frame, and clean it and the frame spot, you'll probably find a fair amount of corrosion. Also, recharge your battery. The MAIN grounding strap is attached to the rear of the engine and to the frame below the airfilter box, it's an open/exposed flat braided wire, you can't miss it!

The grease for the connections for the TCI/ electronic ignition unit is the Dielectric type, not bearing type!! But, with the seat off, bike running, you can also try slightly wiggling the connectors to the TCI to see if you get any faulty action/engine stumbling/dying, if so, then you could also have some poor/loose solder joints in the TCI, folks have reported having to open it up and resolder several connections inside!?

The battery could still be faulty, how old is it? With a slow turning starter, could be low "LOAD" capacity, but could also be poor ground!! The TCI needs a good 10.5 volts to operate, if drops below that, it won't work, no fire to plugs!! Good Luck!
T.C.

[randy]

I suggested the bearing type of grease to help keep the conections dry. If you use the dielectric type be very careful. It is electrically conductive and you will risk shorting accross connections if you use too much.

Randy

[POOLBOY]

Hey,Maicorider,

If you find it is the TCI box that is intermittant, I will solder it up for you no charge.You pay the return postage.I think that you may have bad fuses.I had to replace my fuse box setup with blade type fuses, as the old glass fuse setup had loose clip's, and intermittant fuses.They didnt look bad, but a quick test with a voltmeter showed power at one clip, and none at the other side of the fuse.
Also, dont forget the "tipover switch" That will kill her too.
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