5th gear issue

[GoRacers]

Seems that 5th gear was contacting its shift fork...


5th gear has irregular chamfers all the way around the edge, makes sense since it was contacting the fork...

[DGXSER]

The fork goes in the slot on the other side of the gear teeth. So the wear your showing is on the case side of the gear. The dogs are on the second gear side.

The wear on the fork is a little XSive. Here are the ones form my current XS11 when I got it...


Typically, this is the result when the gears start slipping and someone tries to stand on the shifter to hold the gears in place to stop the slipping. However, if your second gear had no clip holding it in place, it is entirely possible that second gear was putting the pressure on 5th gear as well. Although I woudl suspect if second were pushing against 5th it would be similar to the "machien gun" sound of the second gear slip as the dogs and slots would be making contact. Either way, you obviously have abnormal wear on the shift fork, as well as on the case side of 5th gear wheel.

If it were my bike, I would make sure you get the clip installed properly to hold 2nd gear wheel in place on the main shaft, and replace that shift fork. Also perform the dremel fix on the dogs and slots of 1st, 4th, 2nd, and 5th gears. I would not lose alot of sleep over the wear shown on 5th gear. Again, JMO.

I get your point Tod, even if the picture here shows it could rub on something over there. The issue of the clip missing came along after Greg and I got locked into this debate over the operation of the transmission components.

And Greg, I will simply say thank you for acknowledging me as an EXPERT, I would not consider me one, but thanks anyway. See, even experts get it wrong every now and then. The best ones are willing to admit it when they do.

[BA80]

Seems that 5th gear was contacting its shift fork...


5th gear has irregular chamfers all the way around the edge, makes sense since it was contacting the fork...

I would go ahead and replace the gear and the fork for sure. It looks almost like that fork is bent. That wear isn't from the gear teeth, its from the edge of the slot it rides in. The gear has to be worn just as badly.

That gear can't contact the case if the bearing is good. Once the shift fork and the bearing holder are removed it will slip right out the bearing hole in the case.

[GoRacers]

The fork goes in the slot on the other side of the gear teeth. So the wear your showing is on the case side of the gear. The dogs are on the second gear side.

Good point, don't know what I was thinking. I'll look closer at everything on the case/bearing side of 5th when I get home.

[trbig]

Don, the shift fork would would basically have to be gone to let that happen, and even if it did, it would just sit there against the bearing. Nothing there for the gear to grind on. It would nearly HAVE to be rubbing against 2nd for whatever reason to get grinding.

And it seems that I stand corrected. Not sure if others see the problem since the pic doesn't show it well. The edges of the gear are chamfered when made, but it's the wear on the INSIDE that's disturbing. I've pointed to it here..









And here's what it SHOULD to look like... a nice square machined edge.









So, I was wrong and it was rubbing/grinding on something there on the case side of 5th.. either the bearing or bearing holder... or I wonder if that circlip got put on the outside of that shaft in between 5th and the case/bearing by someone thinking it was just a spacer between the gear and bearing? I just can't understand how 5th got all the way over to the case with the shift fork basically intact. The shift forks are pretty soft material and I doubt you'd hear any grinding sounds from the bit of wear you see on that one. The grinding noise was obviously coming from that hardened gear chewing on something over there.

So... was the circlip still in the notch on the shaft against 2nd where it should be.. or is it gone? Also, I'd like to see a good pictire of the dog side of the gear to see what you're calling too much of a dovetail?

[natemoen]

Also, I'd like to see a good pictire of the dog side of the gear to see what you're calling too much of a dovetail?

Tod, here is the post where he had pics of the gears with the steep dovetail.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.php?p=388586&postcount=39

[GoRacers]

The case, bearing, and shaft end cap all look good. No wear marks.

The weird edge on the inside of 5th is not uniform all the way around. Also is not fresh metal like where the dogs were modified. I think it has been that way for some time. .

Playing with 5th and its shift fork, the fork needs to be leaned over pretty far to get the gear to sit in the groove it made in the fork. I think the fork is bent from a previous rider forcing it to stay in gear.

[BA80]

Tod, here is the post where he had pics of the gears with the steep dovetail.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.p...6&postcount=39

Those gears have been highly modified and quite obviously by someone who had no clue as to how they worked. Ground on BOTH sides.

I don't just wonder if thet ground on the gear teeth too just because they thought that might help something.

[GoRacers]

Got the parts transmission today.

Shift fork looks better, and it does appear that the old one is slightly bent compared to the "new" one.

The dogs on 5th (for 2nd gear) are in perfect shape. Should I still modify them as a preventative action?

[DGXSER]

WOW, those dogs look like they just rolled off the mfg floor!! Never seen any look that good. If you plan to ride it like a cruiser, you probably would not need to. There is some debate about the grinding process eating through the factory hardened steel where it could cause premature wear.

IF it were mine, knowing I like to hammer down on it now and then, I would grind them now. But it is surely not a cut and dry decision.

[BA80]

These are the actual gears I took out of mine a couple weeks ago.......

2nd gear dogs and slots that slipped under hard accelleration.......


1st gear dogs and slots I thought would be OK but slipped under hard accelleration also...


Just a little rounding is all it takes. Those gears don't make much contact when in use.

I would clean them up just to be certain and be sure and do that washer swap on 2nd gear.

[motoman]

Got the parts transmission today.

Shift fork looks better, and it does appear that the old one is slightly bent compared to the "new" one.

The dogs on 5th (for 2nd gear) are in perfect shape. Should I still modify them as a preventative action?

Fairly rounded on the 'load' side. As stated, doesn't take much to slip out of slot. I would dremal them at a slight angle(not as steep as previous ones showed) just till that outer edge is back square.

[trbig]

+1 on what the others said. That gear doesn't get engaged with 2nd very deep. This gear was skipping on my bike.









And you can see that the width of this washer is about as far as 5th and 2nd were engaging. It makes you wonder how they run so long like that before skipping.









So.. you've got two choices here. By moving the washer to the back of 2nd gear, it essentially doubles the contact surface of 2nd/5th. You could put those gears in and try it and it may work like that from now on. BUT... you may find out that you have to go back in if it's still jumping out of gear. The best option is for it to work like it is without grinding on the dogs. But most people don't enjoy getting into the transmission, so the call is going to be yours. It's not really hard or expensive to do, just a bit time consuming.

[GoRacers]

I think I'll go ahead and modify the dogs before I put them back. I'll check out the fitment before I decided to move the washer.

[BA80]

I think I'll go ahead and modify the dogs before I put them back. I'll check out the fitment before I decided to move the washer.

In my opinion the washer swap is most important here. As trbig said, you could probably get away with JUST that but speaking from experience work the gears also because you don't want to have to do it twice like I did.