Shifting Issues

[lakecountrydave]

My bike will shift between neutral and 1st without issue or even the clutch being pulled, but it will not shift into 2nd or above at all. When I try to shift into 2nd it is just a solid metal clank like it is hitting a metal wall.

History:

Bike always shifted like a fine tractor. It never missed a shift nor did it ever pop out of gear. My coils went bad, and for some reason I decided to paint the frame. I completely disassembled the bike, but never opened the engine or transmission except the valve covers were removed. Life and money issues got in the way and the engine sat for over a year. At this time it was fogged and drained of oil. Last year I put her back together and this problem presented itself (as well as a leaking neutral switch). More life getting in the way for a year. The bike sat again. It was fogged, but this time it was in the bike and filled with clean oil.

I am now trying to get it on the road. The clutch cable is new (Bike Bandit #WP-70-5058). This thread:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=clutch

Talks about different cables for the special and the standard. Do I have the right cable?

I just took the covers off and the bearings inside the pressure plate look fine.



And the pins all seem to be like the should be.



I removed the clutch adjustment screw and lubricated it. I then readjusted the clutch. I had done this in the past successfully, so I am pretty sure it is adjusted properly. The shift pawl lever does not seem (to the naked eye) be bent.

Does anyone have an idea what the problem is? My new issue is that the shift pawl lever and the spring came off with the cover. How do i reassemble this with the marks lined up if I cannot put the bike in second gear?

One last thing. The last time I removed the clutch cable the metal retaining tab broke off. Will this be an issue, and if so how can I repair it?

[James England]

Have you tried changing gear whilst moving the rear wheel forward, or rocking it to and fro? Sometimes, without the transmission moving, the gearbox feels like it's stuck in a particular gear but moving the rear wheel enables it to change gear.

If your engine is out of the frame, turn the middle gearbox output (where the shaft UJ joint connects to the engine). You can rotate the shift drum by hand if you wear a glove and move the quadrant by hand.

The clutch lever tab isn't critical. You can always put a cable tie round it. It's to stop the end of the cable jumping out of the lever when the cable gets slack

[DGXSER]

If you did not pull the transmission apart, then the alignment of the shift drum SHOULD not have changed. If you look at the shift pawls, both have a dot in about the middle of the gears. When you re-install the rear shift pawl, make sure the dots align on the two.

James has a point, if your trying to shift the bike moving, it is often necessary to rotate the rear wheel a bit to get the tranny to shift. The type of gears used in this transmission require the dogs and slots to be able to align. If the dogs happen to be hitting in between the slots in the opposing gear, it will hit metal and not shift.

As to the broken tab, again James hit it on the head. The purpose is to keep the cable jumping out of the lever when it is slack. I would create some alternative method of containing it. I would use a plastic type cable tie. I would not rely on a garbage bag type twist tie, this will see some motion and over time any thin metal tie will fatigue and break.

[lakecountrydave]

I have tried spinning the rear wheel and shifting, Unfortunately, it did not change the results or the metal clunk sound. Last year when I got the bike back together I rode her around the block. She still refused to shift out of first gear. I currently have the engine back in the bike.

Thank you for the cable tie idea. I will throw one on when I get this problem solved and button her up

[jwhughes3]

I think you are gonna have to pull the gears out and reinstall looking for the bent part.

John

[lakecountrydave]

As I am transmission and clutch illiterate I hope that John is wrong, but he certainly could be right. As DGXSER said since I did not mess with the transmission everything should still be in order, but then again it did work and now it does not. As all I did was pull the engine out and set it on a cabinet until I picked it up and put it back in I do not know how I could have bent anything internally.

I was trying to figure out how it was supposed to work. I reinstalled the shift shaft assembly aligning the mark with that of the shift lever. When I did this the shift fork bar thingy with the two small fingers did not go into either of the detents inside the pins and ratchet assembly. I also noticed that the pins and ratchet assembly is orientated differently in the pictures that BA80 posted here:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ghlight=clutch

compared to mine (pictured above) The outside part of his seems to form an "arrow" pointing straight up while the "arrow" on mine points to about 1:00 on a clock face.

Is this because my bike is in neutral? Should not these fingers lock into the two detents? Also before I removed the cover the bike could be shifted from neutral to first and back. Now moving the shifter does nothing.

I so want to ride my bike, but I am terrified of tearing my transmission apart. As you can tell I do not even know how it is supposed to work so I doubt my ability to reassemble it properly.

[lakecountrydave]

I also found this thread dealing with the neutral switch causing a different shifting issue:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...witch+2nd+gear

When I started my bike a year ago it was leaking oil from this switch. I replaced the washer, but it turns out the switch was bad. I have a new switch, but was waiting until I figured out my shifting problem before installing it. Could this switch have something to do with my issue? The switch that is in the bike is the original one (or original to me), but it leaks oil. The oil is currently drained.

[DGXSER]

How that lever fits into the pins of the drum is dependent on what gear your in. Being in neutral it will line up differently as you have it apart. When you put the other shift pawl in, and line up the dots, you may see it look more like the one in the other thread.

Without taking the thing apart, it is hard to see how anythign could be off internally. Did you rotate the engine upside down at all while it was out of the frame? Not that I think it would change anything, but maybe possibly could.

Also, have you pulled the clutch cover off? The shift fork rod, where the shift pawl still in your engine mounts, has a gear that drives the oil pump on the other end. Both ends have two c-clips one behind the shift pawl, on in fornt of it, one behind the oil pump idler gear, and one in front. It is not uncommon for thsoe c-clips to come loose and even fall off. If that happens, and there is enough room in there, it is possible your shift pawl slid out of its mesh with the other pawl and the two became misaligned.

Maybe you already tried this, but just reinstall the other pawl, and put the shift lever on without the shift cover in place. Then try shifting the gears. It may show you what is or is not happening correctly.

[lakecountrydave]

OK I previously said "the shift fork bar thingy with the two small fingers did not go into either of the detents inside the pins and ratchet assembly." Upon closer inspection the detents are at approximately 10 o'clock and 12 o'clock on a clock face. The fingering closest to the front of the bike falls into the detent at 10 o'clock when I attempt to shift into first, and the finger closet to the rear of the bike falls into this same hole when I try to up shift. I cannot shift either way. The ratchet assembly rotates slightly either way, and pulling in the clutch does not seem to make any difference.

I do not have the cover on the transmission, and I have the clutch cover installed with only three screws to hold it in place. The detent at 12 o'clock is never used.

Would the engine sitting for a year sans oil and a year siting with oil have screwed up the clutch? I am just pulling at straws at this point.

[DGXSER]

With the engine not running the clutch is not to terribly important. I have many times thifted through the gears without the clutch with the engine not running. You do tend to have to move the rear wheel back and or forth a bit to get the gears to shift into place. IF pulling up on the shifter gets the "hook" to grab one of the pins, then pull up and turn the rear wheel at the same time and see if it shifts. IF nothing else, you could try using a screw driver or similar to try to "gently" push the shift drum one direction or another instead of the shift lever and such. The entire action of the shift pawls is to rotate the shift drum. So try doing that manually and see what happens, of course, rotate the rear wheel slowly and just a little as you try to rotate the shift drum.

Realy, nothing about leaving it sit dry or with oil for a long period of time should change the shifting. Your dealing with big gears and larger mechanical components here, not small delicate intricate gear trains.

[bikerphil]

Dave, I doubt the neutral switch is part of the problem, that thread I started about that proved to be bunk. If the bike sat for a while, are you sure the clutch plates aren't just stuck together? Before, could you ride it in first gear and then shift to neutral and release the clutch with it behaving normally?

[lakecountrydave]

Thanks Phil! As I recall I could shift between 1st and neutral and idle in 1st with the clutch pulled in. I rode around the block which had stop signs. Just before I pulled the covers off I discovered that (with the engine off) I could switch between neutral and first without using the clutch. Now I cannot get out of neutral with clutch cover partially assembled. I will try taking the clutch apart. I am guessing the clutch plates should just come apart from one another?

[DGXSER]

After you pull the star plate off, and remove the center nut and washer. the clutch basket assembly will pull right off the engine. From there, you simply pull the inner basket out. You can then remove the plates and the friction disck and yes they should come apart easily. Maybe jus the film of oil holding them but easily slide across each other.

[bikerphil]

As I recall I could shift between 1st and neutral and idle in 1st with the clutch pulled in. I rode around the block which had stop signs.

If you could idle at a stop sign with the bike in 1st gear and the clutch pulled in, then your clutch plates are NOT stuck together as I mentioned. Even without pulling the clutch in, you should be able to shift thru gears 1-5 with the bike on the centerstand and slowly moving the rear wheel. if you can't do this with the shifter, try rotating the shift drum CCW with your hand and see if you can get it to go past neutral into 2nd, 3rd, etc.

[James England]

You do have to be quite forceful when moving the rear wheel and trying to change gear.

There's nothing about sitting for years, or turning an engine upside down, that will make your gearchange stick.

I would double-check the position of the gearchange pawl and the hook-y bit that pull the drum round or pushes it.