Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

HID Conversion: New Info 2012

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • HID Conversion: New Info 2012

    Hey there folks,

    Well I'm hoping that this will end up as a new tech tip...we'll see!

    First, I'm going to talk a bit about what is HID and why it's been difficult and dangerous to oncoming traffic to install it on our bikes.

    Our bikes came OEM with sealed beam 7x6 H6024 bulbs/housings with the 78E, but then went to separate H4 styled Halogen bulbs and reflector housings in 79. These reflectors were specifically designed for the way light travels from the halogen bulb and provides the required DOT/SAE lowered pattern for Low Beam, and higher pattern for Hi Beam. I know we like pictures, so here's one showing a variety of Halogen style bulbs.



    Halogens have a FILAMENT in them that burns to produce the light, it's subject to vibration damage and provides a limited amount of lumens.
    HID bulbs do NOT have a filament, they have 2 internal electrodes and the current ignites the gas between the electrodes and that is what produces the light. Since it's a GAS, it's not prone to vibration shock damage. Also because other gases can be mixed in, they can be set to provide a variety of lighting colors rated in the Kelvin range, from 3000 up to 20K, Yellow to several whites, to blue, purple and other annoying colors!





    Because of the shape, design of the ignition area of the HID bulb, light rays are not emitted in the same way/direction as Halogens, and so when they are placed in older Halogen Styled reflectors, they produce a considerable amount of widespread GLARE to oncoming traffic, and do not have the proper height cutoff zone for the low beam pattern.

    In the past, HID bulb conversion kits came up with several techniques to "try" to match the hi/lo patterns, they either used a separate Halogen Hi beam bulb mounted beside the halogen bulb, or they had fancy bulbs with magnetic relays/servos that would shift the bulbs position forward or rearward for hi/lo, but because of the incorrect Halogen reflector design, they were still inadequate.

    HID bulb housings use a special PROJECTOR style lens to focus and direct the HID light out onto the road without scattering it all around. These projectors WERE very expensive as well as difficult to install in standard headlight housings. But during my recent searches on eBay, I have found that the technology has caught up with the HID conversion demand.

    Thanks to Steve's thread on converting the Standard's headlight bucket to accomodate a regular 7x6 H6054 rectangular headlight reflector housing, and that the Special takes a standard 7" round style, both headlight styles can now be fitted with specially built reflectors with built-in projector lenses for HID conversions.




    Above are just the headlight reflector/projector housings, you can also get complete HID conversion systems with the respective reflectors/projectors as well.




    They even have them for the Midnight Specials!


    Due to the # of photos and such, I'm splitting this into 2 parts! End of Part 1
    T. C. Gresham
    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
    History shows again and again,
    How nature points out the folly of men!

  • #2
    HID Conversion Part 2

    Part 2

    Now we will get into the more technical aspects of just which type of HID system to get, things to look for and avoid, etc..

    Our bikes have a Hi/Low dual beam setup, and so we want to maintain that with the HID. As mentioned previously, one way of doing that is with a solenoid type bulb that moves the "filament" chamber forward/rearward for hi/low function. This is generally called Bi-Xenon ....Xenon being the type of bulb used for HID vs. Halogen. The above projector styled headlight reflector housings will use this type of bulb to provide the hi/low function. One of the items I found on eBay mentioned a dual "filament" HID bulb, just 2 HID chambers mounted on the same bulb mount and the power is switched between them. This takes a different type of relay/switch and ballast to drive vs. the more common moving bulb type of Bi-Xenon setup.

    The separate projector only housings I found are either plain HID just 1 level of brightness or pattern, OR they have a solenoid that flips down a visor in front of the beam path to provide the cutoff pattern for the low beam, and then flips it up out of the way for the high beam. See below example photos.




    You can see the sharp demarcation line of the cutoff pattern in the upper image below.


    But as stated, these are more difficult to mount in our old style headlight buckets, they are usually for mounting INSIDE a fairing/headlight assembly with a protective clear cover lens or such. They will use just the plain single non-moving style HID bulb, H1, H3, H4...etc.

    Other factors to look out for are whether the HID ballasts are large or slimline. We would want smaller for easier fitment. Also whether they are A/C style or DC style. We want A/C style power output to the bulbs. It does not wear out the bulb as fast, is supposed to be safer, in fact the DC style is not legal for use in the U.S.A.. Another point is the wattage, research has shown that 35 watts is the recommended level, will again let the bulb last as long as they are promoted to. The 55 and 75 watt varietys will burn up the electrodes in the bulbs much faster which then causes them to dim a lot more also...so the 35 watt style maintains close to 80% of it's NEW brightness for the life of the bulb before it finally burns out.

    Some more points, these above kits are for dual headlight CAR systems, and of course, we only have 1, so you can either have the other ballast, reflector, bulb as spares, OR...you can purchase an extra Relay Harness for Bi-Xenon systems for like $16.00 and go in with someone so that you both only have to pay 1/2 the price!





    All of the kits state that "Professional Installation" is suggested, and that they do NOT come with installation instructions, but are quite simple actually as you can see from the diagram above. The Relay harness wires up to the Battery to provide the power for the Ballasts, and they have a standard 3 prong plug that fits into 1 of the headlight receptacles/plugs to provide the On/Off and Hi/Low function. The other wire is ground, and the other wires are for plugging into the ballast and to the bulb. So if you wanted to split up the kit, you just need the extra "Trigger" harness to provide the relay action for the spare/second ballast/light set for the other bike.

    I found this system tonight and have bid on it, should win it, will only be ~$28.00 for a Single Bi-Xenon bulb/ballast set for MC.


    I have already ordered a pair of the reflector/projector housings shown above, also for about $25.00, both have free S&H. The "kit" is coming from CHINA, will take a few weeks to get here, then I can play with it, install it and see how it performs with the NEW Projector Style reflector housing for my Special.

    I have an OEM headlight reflector on my basketcase 79SF that I can borrow/install to try to take some comparative photos on a dark street, then will install my newer Clear Lens reflector and standard Halogen, and then finally install this HID reflector/projector and see how they all stack up!

    Stay tuned, hope this was informative?
    T. C. Gresham
    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
    History shows again and again,
    How nature points out the folly of men!

    Comment


    • #3
      Cant wait to see your results. Ive been wanting to do the same thing but have no clue where to start. Its just too bad that you need to wait for the shipping from China.
      Nate

      78 XS11 "Matilda" 2H7 000364

      2001 Raptor ACCT, T.C. Fuse Box, TC Bros Forward Controls
      Kuryakyn Iso Grips/Throttleboss/Bar End Mirror, Custom Covered Seat
      Shinko 712s, HID Headlight, RC Performance Exhaust
      Bikemaster Daytona Handlebars, Galfer SS Brake Lines
      Barnett HD Clutch Springs, T.C. Spin On Filter Adapter
      K+N Air Filter

      88 Voyager XII
      81 XJ650 Maxim

      Comment


      • #4
        I can't wait to see your results as i was thinking of upgrading to hid not for the power savings but for the light. I almost hit a deer last summer and i barely even saw it but i held off on getting one because of the comments i read on here about hid but if this makes it better then i may consider getting one of those lens reflectors for my bike.
        '79 XS11SF

        Comment


        • #5
          Projector reflector or not, still doesn't make these kits street legal.

          That said, u am interested in the results. After put the hid kit in put the bike on the center stand about 15-20 feet from a flat wall/garage door and post that put too.

          One other note, if you have a headlight modulator you cannot use that with an hid buld!
          Nathan
          KD9ARL

          μολὼν λαβέ

          1978 XS1100E
          K&N Filter
          #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
          OEM Exhaust
          ATK Fork Brace
          LED Dash lights
          Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

          Green Monster Coils
          SS Brake Lines
          Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

          In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

          Theodore Roosevelt

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm anxious to see how your tests go. Would love it for the light. My buddy has the HID conversion on his brand new Harley that the dealer installed. How can they sell or install these if they are not street legal? Or am I getting the technologies mixed up?
            Hydra'82 XJ1100 Frankenbike with a '79 engine

            ~dubbed "Hydra" by a friend, because "once one problem is fixed, another rears its ugly head!"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by pbaker27 View Post
              I'm anxious to see how your tests go. Would love it for the light. My buddy has the HID conversion on his brand new Harley that the dealer installed. How can they sell or install these if they are not street legal? Or am I getting the technologies mixed up?
              I can go get 95% tint put on my Windows at dealers or underbody lights or whatever still doesn't make it legal.


              BUT there are a couple street legal HID units available. They are fully designed to be HID and nothing else. They are also much more expensive, starting at something more like $400!
              Nathan
              KD9ARL

              μολὼν λαβέ

              1978 XS1100E
              K&N Filter
              #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
              OEM Exhaust
              ATK Fork Brace
              LED Dash lights
              Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

              Green Monster Coils
              SS Brake Lines
              Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

              In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

              Theodore Roosevelt

              Comment


              • #8
                hid light info

                tc, thanks for a great post with a ton of correct, usefull info. what i want to know is this: all of my bikes, new and old, came with or i have installed h4 headlights. they all had 60/55 watt bulbs which worked pretty well and certainly better than the old style sealed beams most of the old bikes had from the factory. i went a step further and installed 80/100 watt h4 bulbs on almost all of these bikes and got much better light output. i never had an overload, blown fuse, or any other electrical problem with these hi-output bulbs. can i safely install an 80/100 watt h4 bulb into my all stock '80 xs1100special? the bike has no non-stock electrical stuff on it. thanks

                Comment


                • #9
                  TCat

                  When you do take pics of the light output, I'd suggest not having any side of the road reflecting markers, or signs of that type, nor objects as close to the road as posted to get actual lighting results. The wall suggestion by natomen is ok for aiming, but illumination are the results needed as driver71 suggests.
                  Thanks for your consistant improvisions.
                  Last edited by Irukandji; 08-06-2012, 11:58 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey Mark,

                    I've read of a few folks that have put the 100/80 watt bulbs in their headlights and have done okay. But you'll want to inspect the headlight plug, follow it to the harness, plugs and such to eliminate corrosion and such that could cause overheating due to resistance.

                    The XS11's charging system is near it's potential with just the oem equipment. The 100/80 watt bulb is adding 40/35 watts load....which is roughly 3 additional amps load. Adding things like this is why folks have done the LED conversions for tail/brake and turn signals to free up AMPS for more desired auxillary devices.

                    Hopefully some others that have installed the 80/100 watt bulb will chime in with their experience and any problems they may have had.

                    BTW, are you running the OEM H4 bulb housing/reflector, or have you put on an aftermarket H4 housing. I put on a clear/diamond cut reflector on mine and got a decent improvement that way, over the old dull oem reflector.

                    T.C.
                    T. C. Gresham
                    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                    History shows again and again,
                    How nature points out the folly of men!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Irukandji View Post
                      The wall suggestion by natomen is ok for aiming, but illumination are the results needed as driver71 suggests.
                      Thanks for your consistant improvisions.
                      The wall suggestion is to look for the demarcation line of the low beam. Proper HID lights have a very sudden cutoff of the light at that demarcation point. It goes from bright to dark nearly instantly. If not then you have a poorly focused beam and light scattered where it shouldn't be.
                      Nathan
                      KD9ARL

                      μολὼν λαβέ

                      1978 XS1100E
                      K&N Filter
                      #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
                      OEM Exhaust
                      ATK Fork Brace
                      LED Dash lights
                      Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters

                      Green Monster Coils
                      SS Brake Lines
                      Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

                      In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

                      Theodore Roosevelt

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Mark. What T.C. said + pay particular attention to your fusebox, if you're still running the OEM type. You may not blow a fuse, but they can get very hot and melt the fuse holder clips in the plastic casing..

                        T.C. You've got my undivided attention. I'm currently running a 50W 4300K HID headlight and haven't had any issues with it, but it would be nice to be fully legal.
                        My problem though, is that I've got an 8" headlight from an XS1100RH, not the normal run of the mill 7 incher. Have you seen anything in this size while you've been researching?
                        79 SF Special W/ Stock all original motor @ 384,000klms
                        Stock exhaust, stock airbox, XJ sump, 78E carbs, Xs1100RH seat, Bosch superhorns, 5/8ths front M/c, braided lines, sintered SBS pads, drilled discs, progressive springs, 8" 50w HID headlight 4300K, 2 x 50w HID spiral driving lights, KONI shocks, Spade fuse box
                        *Touring mode - Plexistar 2 screen, Gearsack rack & bag & saddlebags, homebuilt towbar
                        *"The Keg"- UC torana hubs, XS11 discs, Tokico 4 spot calipers

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by natemoen View Post
                          The wall suggestion is to look for the demarcation line of the low beam. Proper HID lights have a very sudden cutoff of the light at that demarcation point. It goes from bright to dark nearly instantly. If not then you have a poorly focused beam and light scattered where it shouldn't be.
                          Nate,
                          You have seen my light, I don't think that there is any scatter to speak of. As far as I could find out the legality of the light concerns the color. The white and one type of blue are OK, the rest may not be.

                          I will try to get the pictures tonight after dark and get them posted here ASAP.
                          The Old Tamer
                          _________________________
                          1979 XS1100SF (The Fire Dragon)
                          1982 650 Maxim (The Little Dragon)
                          another '82 650 Maxim (Parts Dragon)
                          1981 XS1100SH (The Black Dragon)

                          If there are more than three bolts holding it on there, it is most likely a very important part!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Just had to make a quick run on a short service call and as I started the bike I noticed the light on the door and took the opportunity to snap a couple of shots. I know night will be better but this also shows it fairly well.

                            Nate, I was back from the door about as far as your bike was when we fixed the saddlebag. I inadvertantly got two different levels of zoom but you can rate the height from the bottom of the door.

                            Low beam>>



                            High>>

                            The Old Tamer
                            _________________________
                            1979 XS1100SF (The Fire Dragon)
                            1982 650 Maxim (The Little Dragon)
                            another '82 650 Maxim (Parts Dragon)
                            1981 XS1100SH (The Black Dragon)

                            If there are more than three bolts holding it on there, it is most likely a very important part!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hey Eveready,

                              The search criteria I used on eBay was just "round projector HID", and I've only seen the 7" round size, because it's the same size that is common for man cars in the USA along with motorcycles, so I don't think that they make an 8" round, but not sure. If you know of a CAR that has 8" round headlights, many of the ebay ads have compatibility search features where you can put in make/year/model of car to find out what type/size projector modded headlight lens will fit.

                              As to the legality? Crazy Steve has posted that ANY of these generic aftermarket HID conversions of regular Halogen reflectors are NOT legal. I've seen on other sites that showed these new reflectors/projectors that they had DOT/SAE approvals....?

                              I'm not saying that these reflectors ARE LEGAL, just that they will probably provide a more legal looking light pattern, and may help folks get them past inspections IF they look like the proper Projection type lenses that HID bulbs require similar to new vehicles with HIDs!

                              Also, I feel that possibly many members here will be doing the HID conversion to get more light and better visibility without regard to legality, so these reflectors will probably provide a safer light projection pattern and possibly get MORE efficient use out of the HID bulbs.

                              I rechecked the reflector on my basketcase 79SF, and it's a SEALED BEAM type reflector/bulb! So....it looks like I'll need to acquire an OEM reflector housing to perform part of my comparison test. I'm thinking/hoping that George will lend me his SG headlight for a day/night to do the Oem standard bulb test/photos!

                              T.C.
                              T. C. Gresham
                              81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                              79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                              History shows again and again,
                              How nature points out the folly of men!

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X