HID Conversion: New Info 2012

[TopCatGr58]

Well earlier I did a search for Europa headlights/headlamps and only found lots of hits for the LOTUS Car's headlights and such...even used motorcycle and came up with NOTHING. JCW had many of a brand called ADJURE, and some of theirs came with a XENON gas filled bulbs, but they were still HALOGEN style H4 60/55 watt bulbs, NOT HID??

Try using a bright light shining on the headlight from the side, and turn OFF your automatic flash, and set it for MACRO mode, and that may help you get in close and get it to show up.

T.C.

PS: I looked up HD shops in the Madison, Milwaukee area: Called and spoke with them,No Luck at
1)Wisconsin HD in Oconomowoc near lake Lac La Belle
2)Capital City HD/Buell in Madison proper
3)Kutter HD/Buell in Janesville
4)Mischler's HD in Beaver Dam

So...if it was a couple of years ago, then they may NOT be carried anymore???

[CatatonicBug]

First, I can confirm that the Windjammer will accept any generic 7" automotive headlight without any issue at all. It will also fit the standard H4 lense. The notches on the outer ring fit right into the Windjammer bucket to hold it straight. I had to trade the sealed beam headlight from my Windjammer (that I purchased at an auto parts store) for the H4 lense from the XS850 I sold a while back, so I could put the HID bulb in the Windjammer. I did have to cut a hole in the back of the plastic Windjammer headlight bucket to allow the HID bulb to stick out the back. Routing the bulb wires and their corresponding connectors through the tiny grommet hole in the fairing was not fun either, but I made it happen by cutting the grommet open.

I'm interested in getting one of these HID reflectors, since though I have the light focused low enough that it does not blind oncoming drivers, the cutoff is not as clear as I would like. Do the automotive HID reflectors have the same aiming properties as the regular bulbs, where it points the left side one direction and the right side a different direction? Or does it just aim the beam straight forward?

Not sure about that "City light" though. Does that require an additional switch to be added, or does it tap directly into a switched 12v power source?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Bug,

The City lights are just decorative, I wouldn't even connect them if I didn't want the aesthetic extra! These Projector reflectors are probably set with the left edge aimed lower because they are primarily designed for automotive applications and sold in pairs. I'll probably play with both of them to see if there is any difference in either light... to see if one is set more for the left side of the car (lower) vs. the right side (higher) ??

T.C.

[Tat2demon]

TC what lights are you running in that pic? Very cool looking.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Tat,

They are PILOT brand clear lens style, both the headlight H4 reflector, came in a set of 2 for cars, and the matching 55 watt halogen driving/aux lights, also Pilot brand with the accent color rings. The rings don't really show when the headlight is on, so I don't really use the Accent function much at all! But they were GREEN, matched the color scheme, so I said why not!

There's more info I'll be providing on the conversion, specifically also for doing a similar thing for CARS. I did an HID conversion a year or so ago with 9007 style bulbs on my Xterra. But as has been mentioned, the light pattern sucks, all over the place, etc.! Well with the improved technology, I will be able to mount an HID projector INSIDE the headlight lens housing. I have found that the projectors are made in specific bulb mounting styles...ie. H4, 9006, 9007, etc., so that it can be mounted using that specific bulb mount to secure it into the headlight housing where the old halogen bulb would be. Then the projector uses an H1 or DS1 or so stick bulb that doesn't have a fancy mounting style.

There are different styles of projectors....labelled by their "G" generation designation...G1, G2, G3, G4, G5, and G8 the latest. The G3 is the larger 3" wide style, but is also a bit longer front to back and may not fit inside some headlight shells, so the other styles are the smaller 2.5" size. Other goodies are the accent rings around the projector called Angel Eyes, it came with the G2 series, then they added another accent called the Devil Eye which is a faint LED that lights up the projector lens in an accent color. Both the Angel Eye and Devil Eye requires an additional low power transformer wired in with the main HID bulb/ballast. Due to $$, I will be ordering just the G3 projector with the regular Angel Eye in white only! Although they did have a variety of colors for both the Angel and Devil eye lights....green specifically!

I'll be taking photos and such and posting them in the Member's Lounge for folks wanting to persue this version of HID mod which I can only feel will be much better since it's a proper HID projector mounted inside the OEM headlight vs. trying to use HID bulbs and a HALOGEN reflector!

T.C.

[Eveready1100]

Hey Dragontamer,
I found to get a good photo of a headlight lens, daylight is what's needed. Not in direct sunlight, and with the flash off and set to macro, as T.C. suggested. Results should come out like this -

[DGXSER]

I am very interested TC. I have an HID bulb just waiting for a projector/reflector to put it in. I even removed the RLU specifically to upgrade to the HID. But as I have reported, I found the light to scattered and blinding to oncoming traffic.

I was looking for where to buy the unit your planning to use and could not find it. I did find one mfg that told me their projector is to deep for a MC use. So if you found one that works, I am defintiely up for being a test monkey on this one.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there DGXser,

As it happens, I just received the MC single HID unit today, arrived on the slowboat from CHINA literally! The projector I'm going to be using is what I showed on the first page:



The MC unit comes with several bulb fitting adapters, so it has the prongs to fit into an H4 type bulb housing. The above 7" round reflector/projector combo lens uses an H4 bulb fitting, and that's what I have and will be mounting the HID bulb into and onto the bike.

The actual formal complete sealed projector units I have coming are for my SUV. In my research, they do make MINI style/sized projectors...I think the G1 is the smallest/shortest projector, but the problem is any 7" round reflector is essentially a sealed system, so unless you can CUT one apart at the edge so you can get access to mount the projector INSIDE the 7" reflector housing, then the above reflector/projector combo is about the only alternative. Unless you get a pair of self contained projectors and mount them in a custom mount in the headlight ears!?

I'm trying to find a a local DARK/UNLIT road, but it's tough in a metropolitan area, and I want to find it relatively close, I want/need to do photos of both the SUV as well as the bike with the different headlights for a full comparison. So...stay tuned, should be able to show something soon.

T.C.

[DGXSER]

So you have confirmed the depth of the unit will fit in our headlight buckets?

[TopCatGr58]

Good news, Bad News!

Okay, here goes!

I mounted the HID bulb into the 7" round combo reflector housing, and hooked it up to my portable battery/jumper rig, and took it outside and shown it against the garage door! Dazzling is all I can say!





The pattern was a complete SPREAD, no real low beam cutoff zone and such! The design of the "projector" lens allowed for all sorts of light to shine/scatter around the side of the HID bulb to the reflector and then outward. The "Projector" lens didn't seem to do much!

Compared to the amount of curvature of the front of the lenses as well as the small comfined chambers of the real projectors, this pseudo projector seems a flop! SO...I took it apart. The front main lens is GLASS, and it's just glued into the plastic shell and simply pried apart. The "projector" lens then unscrewed from the shell with just 2 screws.







I then put the main glass lens/cover back on, and took my caliper and measured the depth from the inside of the glass lens to the level of the H4 type mounting plate. It's essentially 3" deep!



Most of the regular Car styled Projectors are at least 100mm or 4" deep from front lens surface to mounting plate area! I have found listings for the shorter "motorcycle/fog" light type projectors that are ~3" deep.

Dgxser, the shell of this combo reflector is pretty close to the same depth as the OEM reflector, I think that's what you're asking. However, as you can see, you will not get any better performance from it than your OEM reflector.... without Modding it! You knew that was coming !!

I don't know/think you'll be able to use your existing HID bulb anyways because it has an H4 base....unless it's the convertible/clip on base plate, and that the bulb is a slim round base? I probably won't be able to use the H4 bulb that came with my cheap ballast/bulb kit with the mod that I'm going to suggest be done.

I'll be acquiring a Motorcycle "mini" ~2.5"~2.0" Diam. projector looking closely at the descriptions to ensure that it's only ~3" or less deep to be able to fit INSIDE the above Combo reflector after removing the junk pseudo-projector lens/bracket. These mini projectors are also Bi-xenon in that they use the solenoid flip up/down shutter to create the low beam cutoff zone, the bulb actually doesn't move or change in intensity. They come with bulbs, but they are usually H1 style bulbs....the one that came in my kit was also a convertible H4/H7 type, but the bulb actually shifted SIDEWAYS to "try" to create the hi/low affect in a regular Halogen type reflector. This wiggle action will not be needed in the shutter styled projector.

So...stay tuned, not sure if I'll be able to order and get the mini projector and receive it in time before going on my vacation trip and then to the SE rally?! But this type of mod is what I think will be required to be able to put a REAL HID projector and bulb on our bikes...fitting one INSIDE an aftermarket reflector like above since they are easily separated to allow access to the inside!

T.C.

[DGXSER]

Dang my impatience...I have two of them heading my way as of last night.

[TopCatGr58]

Dude, I'm sorry about that. I, too, had hoped that these combo reflectors would work almost as well as the real enclosed HID projectors.

I had a brainstorm yesterday, and started thinking about how to put an HID style reflector AROUND the bulb inside the combo reflector. I first took the alleged HID projector lens with me, and found that a Mini-Flood light would fit right inside the projector lens holder. I tried cutting it apart with my diamond encrusted dremel cutting wheels, but the glass was a bit THIN, and even though I was able to take the front off of the bulb, several cracks formed that allowed large sections to break off! SO...I gave up on that idea.

I then noticed an old christmas fake snow spray can I had, emptied it out, and then cut off the top...was a perfect curve and the right diameter to fit up to the projector lens. I temporarily mounted it inside the combo reflector, put the HID bulb in, and fired it up.... got just the light coming out of the central projector....but because it's a FAKE lens, it really didn't properly focus the light, and the output was less than a flashlight as to the strength of the beam....the can reflector was just tin/steel, not a mirror polished reflector like real HIDs, but I think the pseudo-proj-lens is also quite a bit at fault, and that even if I had a proper HID projector housing, it probably would still not "PROJECT" properly being the wrong shape and power of actual lens!

But, as I stated earlier, you'll still need this type of reflector housing to be able to mount a REAL Mini Motorcycle projector housing/lens within it, so that it can be mounted in the OEM bucket.

This will probably work for those with SPECIALS, but I think the Standards rectangular lens is probably not as deep as the round one, so I don't know if even the Mini ~3" deep MC projector will fit inside one or not??

So...I'll be ordering a MC Mini projector which will come complete with a bulb, they have the same plugs, so IF my wiggle Bi-Xenon bulb won't fit inside the REAL projector, then I'll still be able to use the bulb that comes with the projector...I'll be ordering one WITHOUT the ballast, but they(eBay also) offer them WITH the complete system for those who don't already have an HID conversion kit....so they can have the whole kit, but will still need the 7" round reflector housing to mount the projector in, and be able to mount it in the OEM bucket.

So...perhaps you'll be able to sell the 2nd/other reflector housing to someone on here that will want to do the proper HID conversion with a real projector.

T.C.

[DGXSER]

Nothing on you TC, my own impatience is at fault.

I will wait and let you do more of your magic on this.

[crazy steve]

TC, for what it's worth I looked at the HID headlights on my new Mustang and that made me wonder if modifying a car unit may not be the easiest/cheapest path...

These are starting to show up on a lot of cars, so you should start seeing these in the boneyards. Most seem to be a plastic housing of some sort, with the actual projector enclosed in the housing. Those housings can get damaged in a crash while the internals are still good, so 'donor' lights shouldn't be that hard to come by. Whether or not the auto electronics would work on a bike would have to be checked out, but I don't see why not.

These are very impressive lights, with the only lights that I've had that equalled them was a full set of Cibies that I had in a '70 Mercury (and those had illegal 100W lamps in the high beams...).

[natemoen]

Most car headlights are 4 light systems though. 2 bulbs are low and 2 are high. If you find a car with high and low in one bulb then yeah, cut it out and put in in an MC bulb and you are good to go. It still would need to be behind glass or plastic that is clear though.