Autolite 63

[ddragon63]

BP6ES are 4-5 bucks each for me at NAPA. 8 bucks isn't much of an increase for a four-popper if they last more than twice as long.

Spark plugs are one of those subjects I consider 'controversial' since most 'advances' in plugs, like the wildly expensive and over-rated Bosch +" " plugs, don't do much. Do they ACTUALLY last that much longer? What happens when they fuel or oil foul? Can they stand up to a wire-wheeling for re-use?

Example- I had a fuel fouling issue and had to dry/wire wheel the BP6ES's (remove fine film) and they handled it like champs.

Not trying to be a dick or call you out, just curious if they're not just hype and looking for real-world examples not wrapped in advertisment propaganda. I tend to hold all of you guys in higher esteem than ads or journalists.

I understand exactly what your saying I'm a HUGE skeptic of everything that is "the next big thing" the iradium plug craze started with the high HP street bike and full on drag bike guys. Now damn near every bike manufacture in the world uses them as stock plugs. Half the reason is longevity. You ever change the plugs in a modern sport bike and you will not want to do it again for a while. They are not fun to get to.
A buddy of mine owns a bike shop he tells me "if it was about money I would put copper cores in everything, then i know that guy will be back in a year for new ones. I'd rather see the customer spend a little more once, and get more ride time on his bike between services. Makes for a happier customer,"

As for cleaning... I sure wouldn't go after them with a wire wheel. The tip is VERY fine. So if you have a constant fuel or oil fouling issue IX plugs are not for you. On the flip side of that... If you have a fouling issue, it is not the plugs fault... If you get what im saying. They take abuse very well under normal running conditions. There's always going to be some oil slippage past the rings in a gas engine that's just part of life. But if you got a severe cases of fouling you have other issues to address than plug choice. If a fella's got a good running bike I don't see how you can go wrong with a longer lasting better performing plug.

BTW... Napa is hosing you! I pay $2.75 each for bp6es plugs at my local auto parts house. So if napa is 4 or 5 bucks you can project the IX plugs will be 12 or so each. Might wanna shop around or buy off the interweb my friend.

[crazy steve]

BP6ES are 4-5 bucks each for me at NAPA. 8 bucks isn't much of an increase for a four-popper if they last more than twice as long.

Spark plugs are one of those subjects I consider 'controversial' since most 'advances' in plugs, like the wildly expensive and over-rated Bosch +" " plugs, don't do much. Do they ACTUALLY last that much longer? What happens when they fuel or oil foul? Can they stand up to a wire-wheeling for re-use?

Example- I had a fuel fouling issue and had to dry/wire wheel the BP6ES's (remove fine film) and they handled it like champs.

Not trying to be a dick or call you out, just curious if they're not just hype and looking for real-world examples not wrapped in advertisment propaganda. I tend to hold all of you guys in higher esteem than ads or journalists.

I have to agree that for older motors, this is mostly hype. By and large, most of the newer plug designs are better, but there's a big IF attached to that IMO. The real biggy is these plugs aren't designed for a 30+ year-old air-cooled carburated motor that operates across a wide tempature range with 'less than perfect' fuel mixture control...

Another issue that's never mentioned is the newer motors have much better ignition systems. Higher output coils, dwell control, and more precise timing all makes a difference. Even with upgraded coils, the XS ignition system still isn't equal in delivering the spark energy a truely modern system can.

These newer plugs were designed for water-cooled, EFI-fueled motors. Being water-cooled, they operate in a much narrower temp range so low-temp fouling and high-temp overheating is rarely an issue. Same for fuel delivery; EFI is much more precise in keeping the fuel mixture 'right'. Operate them in the environment they're intended for and they'll outlast 'conventional' plugs no question. Their main advantage is less electrode wear, important on some newer vehicles where getting access to the plugs is a major undertaking so you want the service interval as long as possible as well as maintaining low emissions longer.

The downside is these plugs don't tolerate high/low temps or rich mixtures as well as the older types due to their smaller electrodes. Not a problem in a newer motor, but the XS can have trouble delivering those conditions over the long-term; the few times I've tried 'modern' plugs in a older motor I've been disappointed. The one thing I've never seen is a direct 'apples to apples' comparison of old design vs new design plugs in a representative motor like the XS. Replacing a set of used plugs of any type with new plugs will generally result in better performance, whether the new plugs are 'old style' or some modern trick design.

One thing I have consistantly seen though is when the testing is done with a 'older' motor by a neutral party very few of these trick plugs have come up to their claims; at best some have shown only very minor improvements in power, and many showed no improvement. When you do find these plugs at the racetrack, they're replaced just as often as the 'older' plugs....

All this reminds me of the hype surrounding audio cables with the claims about 'oxygen-free copper', 'skin effect', and other highly technical claims; a now-retired reviewer (Julian Hirch at the old 'Stereo Review') offered to pay $10K to any 'high-end' cable manufacturer if they could prove their product was better in a double-blind test. He never had to pay off....

I know this won't convince the 'true believers', but it's my .02 worth....

[daveyg]

My ts185 has a dual plug head, as its a 2 smoker, they designed it to have a way to get u home when, not if, the first plug fouls. When I got it I figured I'd try one of the new Bosch plugs that has 2 electrodes per plug. I haven't put many miles on the bike (like about 20) but I start it up once every 2 weeks and let it run about 10mins each time, hasnt fouled yet. And I'm running double the oil in the gas... I put 32:1 in the tank and the oil injection system works also. But 2 smoke vs an xs11 is like comparing an onion to an Apple...

[ddragon63]

oh steve

I knew as soon as I hit post my buddy Steve would be right on me to drop a valid point to counter my point

Yes the downfall of every carbureted motor is that its stuck on 1 tuning plain and cannot self adjust. And yes an air cooled motor can see oil temps that vary 100 degs from it water cooled brother.

Here's my point... If your motor fuel fouls a plug when its 70 degs outside, it probably don't run very well when it 40 out. And if your oil fouling a plug @ 70 outside it doesn't matter the temp its gonna keep fouling.

My main point is this. Iridium is a better electrical conductor than copper. It will not break down on a molecular level from high electrical current like copper. Especially when you arcing across it to a nickel plated steel ground strap. A copper electrode will eventually break down so bad that it will not allow current to pass freely thru it. Irdium will never break down from electrical current. The nickel plated carbon steel ground strap will die first. So I guess it chefs choice. I'm gonna use a set once I've worn this set of coppers out. And if I'm wrong... I will openly admit so here. But if I'm right.....

[jetmechmarty]

IMHO, the best way to improve spark on these old girls is to index the plugs. That being said, I never do it because I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference after I made the effort. YMMV.

[ddragon63]

IMHO, the best way to improve spark on these old girls is to index the plugs. That being said, I never do it because I don't think I'd be able to tell the difference after I made the effort. YMMV.

Marty I validated your point once on the dyno with my race car. Made 3 pulls and averaged 466 hp to the tires. Spent 30 minutes indexing plugs and made 3 pulls... averaged 469 hp. 3 hp is not worth the trouble. And in a 95 hp motorcycle we're talking maybe a .1 of a hp you may gain.... No thanks I'll just screw em in

[crazy steve]

Marty I validated your point once on the dyno with my race car. Made 3 pulls and averaged 466 hp to the tires. Spent 30 minutes indexing plugs and made 3 pulls... averaged 469 hp. 3 hp is not worth the trouble. And in a 95 hp motorcycle we're talking maybe a .1 of a hp you may gain.... No thanks I'll just screw em in

That's pretty much the way I look at these 'better' plugs... More expense for a very small gain, and that's only if everything is 'right'.

[bikerphil]

Side gapping your NGK 7333's (new number for BP6ES) will give you more/smoother power, JMHO.

[EricHa]

Side gapping your NGK 7333's (new number for BP6ES) will give you more/smoother power, JMHO.

That does seem like it would be worth trying. More flame front can't be a bad thing I imagine.

I have these old before/after plugs laying on my desk from an A/Fuel dragster. They self-side gap inside the engine on a run. Only takes 5.2 seconds.

[Dragon Tamer]

This is worse than a tire/oil thread. My experience is that ALL of my Yamaha motorcycles do not like NGK plugs. Either that or they like them very much being as they eat them right up. Using NGK's I often have to change out the plugs as much as three times a season. Same with my ATV only sometimes twice a week there. Went to Champions in everything. The set in my Maxim has been in there two years now, no problems. The set in the Fire Dragon has been in there almost three years now, no problems but may change them this year just to see. The atv? Been almost five years now, same plug, runs like a champ!!!

[ddragon63]

This is worse than a tire/oil thread. My experience is that ALL of my Yamaha motorcycles do not like NGK plugs. Either that or they like them very much being as they eat them right up. Using NGK's I often have to change out the plugs as much as three times a season. Same with my ATV only sometimes twice a week there. Went to Champions in everything. The set in my Maxim has been in there two years now, no problems. The set in the Fire Dragon has been in there almost three years now, no problems but may change them this year just to see. The atv? Been almost five years now, same plug, runs like a champ!!!

I have to say.... you are the first person on EARTH I have ever heard that from. Even when I worked @ an auto parts store as a kid I've never heard ANYONE have an issue with NGK plugs... All the old timers would bad mouth every other plug manufacture.... You ask em about NGK and they'd say "good plug... best for power equipment and bikes."

[Dragon Tamer]

When I got the Fire Dragon the PO told me "it has a new set of plugs in it but they are NGKs as that is all I could get, you won't like them so put in Champions as soon as you can". He was right, in less than two months I picked up an erratic miss. Pulled the plugs and replaced them with another set of NGKs. By late that summer it was missing again, same story. The plugs look good when I pull them but just will not spark. I finally located a set of Champs and they went two years. Damaged one during the spring checkup/tuneup and had to put NGKs in again. They did not last 5,000 miles. I never put them back in again.

When I got the Maxim, it had two NGKs one Autolite and one Champion in it. I pulled them all and put in Champs. Don't know how it would run with NGKs, never had any in it.

My ATV when I bought it (used) had two handfulls of NGK pugs in the toolbox, some new in the box some used. About two weeks later, out in the middle of nowhere it just stopped like I had shut the key off. We tracked it down to a dead plug. Same thing, plug looks good but WILL NOT spark. New plug made it go good again. Before the season was out I had used up all of the good plugs in that tool box. Come spring I put in a Champ and it is still in there, there is a spare in the toolbox but I have not needed it yet.

YMMV!!!

[CaptonZap]

Back in the day, when a bad plug in a thumper trail bike would leave you with a long walk home, we called NGK's the No Good Kind.
Never had a problem with Champions. 'Course, that was before the company went through several different acquisitions, with the attendant accountant ordered austerity measures, which usually affect quality.
Today's Champions may not be as good as yesteryears, but I haven't had any trouble with them, other than finding a parts man that could figure out the new Champion numbering system, and translate from the old.
RN9YC is on the plug, but the stock number on the box is different, leading to some doubt as to whether there are stocked at that store. They are. Under the new number.

And I put DynaBeads in a rear tire inflated to 40 psi, as well.
CZ, livin on the edge

[Dragon Tamer]

+1 on that!!!

The new Champion # for the N9YC is 300. That is what is on the box of four plugs (convienent) but the single boxes still read N9YC. Not quite as confusing as astral physics but close.

[BA80]

Champions come OEM in Chrysler products. They are recommended to be replaced in 20K mile intervals.

Nuff said.