Raptor Auto Cam Chain Tensioner swap

[ddragon63]

Hey Fellas,

I installed the Raptor cam chain tensioner this morning.... Simple effective swap. I couldn't get pictures while putting it in as my head barely fits between the forks and the engine trying to get my head, both hands, and my phone in there was a no go.

Here is a picture of the stock one and the raptor tensioner side by side as you can see not only is there no rubber pad on the Raptor CCT it is also A crap ton stronger as the body it ALOT thicker!



So here is what I did...

Took Timing cover off. inserted 6mm hex into end of timing plate and rotated engine clockwise untill it was on the "C" mark. Took the 2 bolts out that hold the factory CCT in place. Gave the CCT a little love tap to break the gasket seal.

Took the bolt and spring out of the back of the Raptor CCT (has a copper washer behind the bolt head... no more leaks!). Cleaned old gasket material off both the CCT and engine surface. Applied Permatex Ultra Black RTV to engine surface.

Depressed the 1 way ratchet bar of the Raptor CCT and depressed the plunger into the body as far as it would go.

Attached Raptor CCT body to the engine with the 2 old bolts. Inserted spring and bolt in hole in body. as I pushed the spring and bolt into the body I heard the ratchet click a few times as it pushed out to the guide bar. Tightened Spring bolt into body with supplied copper washer.

Ta-DAH all done. I rolled the engine over by hand a few times to verify nothing bound up. Once I was satisfied. I pull the choke and fired it up. Runs great!

BTW the spring pressure of the raptor CCT is pretty damn close to that of the factory spring in the manual CCT. I will say 1 thing. the plunger depth CAN go in alot more on the Raptor CCT than the stock CCT. NOW after dismantling the factory CCT to look @ the set screw marks and I can tell you that from Stock SET (33 years ago) to this moring the marks are within 1/4 of each other... which BTW at the end of this there is only another 1/4 of adjustment left available on the factory CCT. I'm just going to assume (because I can't verify my claim here) that this overall 1/2 +- of adjustment area is a set distance for max chain stretch. When the CCT has made it to its limit the chain will become obviously noisy and you will not be able to adjust it to go away. Thus requiring you to need to buy a new cam chain.

So I like the idea of the Auto CCT no matter which bike you rob one from. But I would wanna warn people that they are now in charge of checking their chain themselves as now the auto CCT will just continue to push the chain in.

My $.02 on it YMMV

you can search my threads and find a comprehensive cross reference list of different models that you can get an Auto CCT from that was posted by other Forum Brothers.

You can find Raptor CCT's on Ebay all day long for under $20

Hope this was helpful and thing I missed I sure you guys will let me know. Any questions will be answered best as possible

Don

[BA80]

Here's the ORIGINAL POST Ivan put up 2 1/2 years ago. He started with a Venture tensioner.

I've been using them ever since. Some people said it would cause undo wear on the slippers but none has been reported as of yet.

[crazy steve]

And here's the everything-in-one-place tech tip for the auto tensioners...
http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35501

Don has made a good point; every one of the various ACCTs has a lot more 'adjustment travel' compared to the OEM manual adjuster, but whether that's a big deal or not on a XS remains to be seen. One thing is clear; Yamaha has gone to the auto CCT versions on pretty much everything they sell, so they must not think it's a big problem...

[Schming]

Hi Don,

A point that needs mentioned, IMHO, is to make sure the bike is on the center stand or as we say in carpenterville "plumb" to assure the cam chain doesn't fall off to the side of the crankshaft.

JAT Would it behoove us, that are doing this mod, to "size" the "chosen" ACCT to match the length of the OEM CCT ?

[ddragon63]

Hi Don,

A point that needs mentioned, IMHO, is to make sure the bike is on the center stand or as we say in carpenterville "plumb" to assure the cam chain doesn't fall off to the side of the crankshaft.

JAT Would it behoove us, that are doing this mod, to "size" the "chosen" ACCT to match the length of the OEM CCT ?

I guess a Fella could do that if he wanted. If Someone desired to cut the plunger to make the CCT the length that of a stock one I'd cut it with a chop saw a little long then finish it on a mill or lathe. take note of the beveled edge @ the end and try and duplicated it. The plunger appears to be "tooled" steel so it "should" hold up to a mod like that.

[crazy steve]

I'm not sure what Schming meant by 'sizing' the ACCT, but if you tried to cut the plunger, remember it's hollow for the spring....

[ddragon63]

I'm not sure what Schming meant by 'sizing' the ACCT, but if you tried to cut the plunger, remember it's hollow for the spring....

You would need to cut it from the back... Not the nose of it. Sounds like more work that needed but it could be done. Personally I think a good inspection of the chain, sprockets, and maybe pull the CCT to see how far its adjusted after a bit will give you a good idea of life span. I figure I'll pull mine after 5 or 6000 miles and see how everything is heating along.

So far so good. I hammered on it pretty good yesterday while scrubbing the tires. We had a saying back in my drag racing days " if its gonna fail I want it to fail in front of the house not in front of a crowd!" so any time I'm testing something the first pass by the house is slow for listening for strange noises. The next 2 passes are balls out. If its gonna break I want it to break within pushing distance from my tools.

[Schming]

Yes it is Steve, hollow that is, up to a point that I will disclose soon.
I decided to tinker a little with the ACCT from an XVZ 1300 thats been staring at me for over 2yrs. now.

I'm concerned about the extra extended length of these ACCT's possibly causing unwanted wear on the sliders when the chain is stretched beyond its oem maximum limit.

Any pros or cons on this query?

[crazy steve]

Well, I kinda thought that may be an issue when I pointed out the differences in the spring tension between the various units. But I suspect that may have little or no affect on the guide wear as more than a few here have been running these for a couple of years now and there's been no reported problems. The other thing is the spring tension goes down as the plunger moves in, so that may be 'self-adjusting' in that way. And which would be worse, 'too much' adjuster travel, or limit it and run into a loose chain that may snap when you run out of travel?

Again, Yamaha went to this type cam chain adjuster on pretty much everything they sell that uses one, so you have to assume they know what they're doing...

[ddragon63]

Yes the travel is realy the only Downfall I can see with this mod. The raptor cct doesn't have anymore spring pressure than the stock cct. But like previously discussed once you lock the stock one down the pressure is now set. Either building a stopper to keep the auto cct from traveling past the distance of the stock cct or shortening the plunger is the only way I could see to make it so it can't travel past the limitations of the stock one. And like I've said before I would imagine the stock one is designed to not allow you to over stretch the chain. Where as it appears that this raptor cct is designed to locate a guide bar a little further in the cylinder head. So the travel is going to be greater in an xs motor. I can tell you that my raptor cct is only out about 4 clicks from fully collapsed. And there's 20 or so total clicks onthe cct.

As for a stopper I would take it fully apart and see what stops it now. Might be a slot thru the body of the plunger and the roll pin thru the whole unit thru the side. Could always slot out the body on either side near where your desired stopping point would be if that's the case.

[Schming]

Well, I kinda thought that may be an issue when I pointed out the differences in the spring tension between the various units. But I suspect that may have little or no affect on the guide wear as more than a few here have been running these for a couple of years now and there's been no reported problems. The other thing is the spring tension goes down as the plunger moves in, so that may be 'self-adjusting' in that way. And which would be worse, 'too much' adjuster travel, or limit it and run into a loose chain that may snap when you run out of travel?

Again, Yamaha went to this type cam chain adjuster on pretty much everything they sell that uses one, so you have to assume they know what they're doing...

I recall a washer swap to the transmission...

I guess my bottom line inquiry is just, when do we know the cam chain needs replaced, so we don't grenade our engines?

But here's what I've been tinkering with:

XVZ 1300 ACCT exploded view


length of plunger


depth of plunger which leaves 9.79mm of stock


limit indentation on shaft, set/stop screw tapped hole and crosshair @ 6mm o.c.


The fully extended length of my '80G OEM CCT is 45.00mm from gasket.
The set length of my CCT, as removed today is 42.00mm from gasket.

The fully extended length of the XVZ 1300 ACCT is 51.00mm from gasket.

To make the same length plunger as the OEM I can either cut 6mm of the end that contacts the slider, which leaves 3.79mm stock, or drill and tap a new set/stop screw hole, at the crosshair in last pic, to position the plunger with 6mm shorter throw.

As shown above I have 3mm of adjustment left on the OEM CCT.
My engine has 20,377mi. on it to date.
To me 3mm isn't a lot of adjustment left for such low miles.

Is there some accurate way to gauge the replacement of our cam chains?

[crazy steve]

Is there some accurate way to gauge the replacement of our cam chains?

The FSM gives very little guidance on the cam chain. They remark that the chain wears very little unless oil-starved, and replacement is only needed if the chain is stretched 'excessively' (whatever that means) and won't stay in adjustment. I suspect that any cam chain failures may have had more to do with a slipping/mal-adjusted tensioner rather than a chain wear issue per se...

[ddragon63]

The FSM gives very little guidance on the cam chain. They remark that the chain wears very little unless oil-starved, and replacement is only needed if the chain is stretched 'excessively' (whatever that means) and won't stay in adjustment. I suspect that any cam chain failures may have had more to do with a slipping/mal-adjusted tensioner rather than a chain wear issue per se...

+1 on slipping cct causing failure. If chain has proper guidance and lubrication you should get A LOT of miles out of it... Especially being a pin link "roller type" chain. Eventually it will stretch out and your cam timings will get out of wack. They shouldn't break from stretch. But like I've said before. Puppies die new all the time.

[Schming]

Tinkering Complete

I recall a washer swap to the transmission...

I guess my bottom line inquiry is just, when do we know the cam chain needs replaced, so we don't grenade our engines?

But here's what I've been tinkering with:

XVZ 1300 ACCT exploded view


length of plunger


depth of plunger which leaves 9.79mm of stock


limit indentation on shaft, set/stop screw tapped hole and crosshair @ 6mm o.c.


The fully extended length of my '80G OEM CCT is 45.00mm from gasket.
The set length of my CCT, as removed today is 42.00mm from gasket.

The fully extended length of the XVZ 1300 ACCT is 51.00mm from gasket.

To make the same length plunger as the OEM I can either cut 6mm of the end that contacts the slider, which leaves 3.79mm stock, or drill and tap a new set/stop screw hole, at the crosshair in last pic, to position the plunger with 6mm shorter throw.

As shown above I have 3mm of adjustment left on the OEM CCT.
My engine has 20,377mi. on it to date.
To me 3mm isn't a lot of adjustment left for such low miles.

Is there some accurate way to gauge the replacement of our cam chains?

While performing the ACCT mod I found that the XVZ tensioner not only extends 6mm further than the oem CCT it also has less pressure than the oem CCT.

I applied pressure to the oem on a scale and it started to depress at approx. 10 lbs.

I did the same to the XVZ and it started to depress at approx. 2 lbs.

So this is what I did:

drilled and tapped a hole to move the shaft stop set screw so the shaft has 6mm less throw to match the length of the oem CCT


same fully extended length as the oem CCT



ready to install



and done


Moving the extension limit screw corrected the fully extended length to match the oem CCT and also increased the depression pressure to approx. 10 lbs.

[CodyLane]

Nicely done. That engine is clean!