Brake rebuild questions 79SF

[old_skool]

Ok, so I have to finish up the carbs, my pods are on the way as are my fork seals, next I'll be rebuilding the calipers(all 3) and master cylinders. Who has the cheapest rebuild kits, and is it recommended to just replace everything or are there some components of these rebuilds that are usually safely reusable after cleaning. My brakes work but stick a little. What type of pads do you reccomend? I'll be inspecting the lines real well after removal of everything. And if there are any mods that can be or should be done on the brake system, don't hesitate to chime in on that as well since I'll be tearing into them anyway. My rotors look good, I know your not supposed to turn them, but can I use one of those twist-lock pads to clean them up a little? I understand from previous postings I've read that these brakes could have been a lot stronger...what the weak point? Size? calipers?Master? or... I'm not going to be changing forks/front end any time soon, So unless there are cheap bolt ons or something requiring minimal modification, I'll be using the stock system. Is the best fluid what came original, or are some of the newer types compatable and better? I know... a lot of Q's again, but where safety is concerned, I'd rather ask and annoy then be sorry later. Thanks!

[natemoen]

Ok, so I have to finish up the carbs, my pods are on the way as are my fork seals, next I'll be rebuilding the calipers(all 3) and master cylinders. Who has the cheapest rebuild kits, and is it recommended to just replace everything or are there some components of these rebuilds that are usually safely reusable after cleaning. My brakes work but stick a little. What type of pads do you reccomend?

The only parts that are in the caliper is the piston and a single square profile o-ring seal, and the little boot. Unless one of those parts are damaged there is no need for rebuild kits. You can get new Stainless Steel pistons for around $25 each from HVC cycle. Otherwise a good cleaning, especially behind that seal. Usually crap builds up behind that seal and that is what causes the brakes to stick.

I'll be inspecting the lines real well after removal of everything. And if there are any mods that can be or should be done on the brake system, don't hesitate to chime in on that as well since I'll be tearing into them anyway.

I understand from previous postings I've read that these brakes could have been a lot stronger...what the weak point? Size? calipers?Master? or...

Braided Stainless Steel break lines. Really firms up the breaks.

My rotors look good, I know your not supposed to turn them, but can I use one of those twist-lock pads to clean them up a little? Is the best fluid what came original, or are some of the newer types compatable and better? I know... a lot of Q's again, but where safety is concerned, I'd rather ask and annoy then be sorry later. Thanks!

Just taking a scotchbrite pad to the rotors to clean them up is really all that you need to do. Plain Dot 3 or 4 (they are compatible anyways) brake fluid is fine, no need for the fancy expensive dot 5. You especially do not want to change to Dot 5 if you reuse the same lines, you will never get all the old fluid out anyways.

Also, Crazy Steve came up with a way that you could mount I think it was dual piston (maybe it was only single pistons but larger pads) HD calipers to the standard forks, overall it would be a pretty cheap way to upgrade the brakes.

[CatatonicBug]

IMO, it depends on how long it's been since you last rebuilt them, but rebuild kits with new seals could never hurt. The rubber is what deteriorates, and can be bad even when it "looks" ok. GeorgeFix on ebay is a trusted seller of the kits, and I actually just received kits for my front calipers from him yesterday. If your pads still have meat on them, no need to change them, but if you want to, that's up to you. I believe Georgefix sells those too.

The hardest part about the whole process is getting the pistons out of the calipers. Since your master cylinder still functions, remove the calipers from the forks, but leave the lines connected to them. Remove the pads, and use the Master cylinder to pump the fluid into the caliper, forcing the pistons out. Remember to add fluid to the MC during this process so you don't get too much air in the line. You can even hook up one caliper at a time and do it, but be careful not to drain the line of fluid, or you won't have enough pressure to pump the piston out.

You can also use a grease gun on the bleeder valve, but that gets rather messy IMO.

Be sure to clean out the groove under the seals in the calipers VERY well! The seals must be able to move in that groove, while at the same time, maintaining the seal. Lots of crud can build up in that groove and prevent the seals from moving, and that prevents them from drawing the pistons away from the rotors when you let off the brakes.

[old_skool]

What about the master, just go ahead and rebuild it with a kit since they don't seem overly expensive either, I want reliability since who knows what was or wasn't done before.

[crazy steve]

...Also, Crazy Steve came up with a way that you could mount I think it was dual piston (maybe it was only single pistons but larger pads) HD calipers to the standard forks, overall it would be a pretty cheap way to upgrade the brakes.

The Harley calipers are 4 piston, but you can only do the mod on standard forks; with special forks, you're stuck with what you have...

Here's the mod: http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...=Brake+upgrade

The special calipers do have larger pads/pistons compared to the standards, but that's offset by the funky design. Brakes were never these bikes strong suit...

The master is fine, it's capable of operating most anything you may have at the other end. Unless the bore is damaged or heavily worn, a rebuild kit will bring it back.

[CatatonicBug]

What about the master, just go ahead and rebuild it with a kit since they don't seem overly expensive either, I want reliability since who knows what was or wasn't done before.

If it were me, since you don't know the last time it was done, I would put a new kit in the MC as well. You could probably get away without it, depending on the condition of your MC rubber parts, but it's cheap insurance. Stopping is more important that going! Once you've done it, just flush the fluid annually and make sure the spooge hole is clear, and you should only have to rebuild them again every few years to clean the groove behind the seals in the calipers.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

All good advice

All good advice frome the other members. It sounds like you would rather be safe then sorry, so I would get new kits all around, not that much cash for all new brake parts. The S/S lines would be a great upgrade but a few extra $$ but much improver brakeing and Yamaha recomends replaceing all their rubber lines every 4 years and it has never been done on many of these bikes If you are going to rebuild the calipers, you can used compressed air to get the pistons out. Just drain the fluid, put a rag in to catch the piston where the pads were and go slow with the air through the brake line hole. Get a set of the snap ring pliers like the 90deg bent long nose on Mikes. Also make sure you install dust boots on both M/C's, they will hold up a lot longer that way

What about the master, just go ahead and rebuild it with a kit since they don't seem overly expensive either, I want reliability since who knows what was or wasn't done before.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Bolts

Also, when you take out the bolts that hold the fromt calipers on, if you see any wobble, replace them, they tend to bend slightly and will cause brakeing wobble under hard brakeing

[sthomag]

Instead of rebuilding the master cylinder, I'd seriously consider replacing it with a 16mm MC, like Part #08-0265 from Mike's XS. It made a huge difference on my bike, transforming the lever feel from wooden to responsive, and increasing power too. Now two fingers are all it takes to haul it up in a hurry.

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-71.html#products

Rebuilding the calipers is cheap insurance. And replace the pads unless you know they're reasonably fresh -- new pads make a difference. Also, unless you know that the brake hoses are fairly new, junk 'em. Stainless steel lines aren't much more expensive than rubber ones, and they feel much, much better and last forever.

[old_skool]

Instead of rebuilding the master cylinder, I'd seriously consider replacing it with a 16mm MC, like Part #08-0265 from Mike's XS. It made a huge difference on my bike, transforming the lever feel from wooden to responsive, and increasing power too. Now two fingers are all it takes to haul it up in a hurry.

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-71.html#products

Rebuilding the calipers is cheap insurance. And replace the pads unless you know they're reasonably fresh -- new pads make a difference. Also, unless you know that the brake hoses are fairly new, junk 'em. Stainless steel lines aren't much more expensive than rubber ones, and they feel much, much better and last forever.

I might go that route when running, I think I'll rebuild mine as well, can always sell the original especially after rebuilt to recoup some cost for the new one. Thanks, definitely want the best brakes I can have, so it's looking like a new MC and steel braided lines. Quick question though, how does that brake lever compare to the left side OEM, don't want a mismatch

[crazy steve]

Instead of rebuilding the master cylinder, I'd seriously consider replacing it with a 16mm MC, like Part #08-0265 from Mike's XS. It made a huge difference on my bike, transforming the lever feel from wooden to responsive, and increasing power too. Now two fingers are all it takes to haul it up in a hurry.

http://www.mikesxs.net/products-71.html#products

Swapping masters can change the brake 'feel' quite a bit, but if you go to a smaller bore version (stock is about 17.5mm), you really need to install braided lines. A smaller bore will give better 'modulation' and more pressure, but the cost is more lever travel; with OEM-style rubber lines, you can bottom the lever against the bars...

In terms of actual braking performance, it won't make any difference.

[old_skool]

so the best combination would be---rebuild the oem master and add braided lines??! Am I correct?

[sthomag]

Quick question though, how does that brake lever compare to the left side OEM, don't want a mismatch

It's a little different looking. But not enough to notice unless you look hard.

[sthomag]

In terms of actual braking performance, it won't make any difference.

It does make a difference because with more leverage you can put more clamping force on the disk. More clamping force means more friction, more kinetic energy transformed into heat, and thus more stopping power.

[crazy steve]

so the best combination would be---rebuild the oem master and add braided lines??! Am I correct?

Well, 'best' is a question-begging term... Braided lines will give a firmer 'feel' to the brakes, but again, don't really make the brakes any 'better'. And getting rid of the well-past-their-expiration-date rubber lines is always a good idea if there's any doubt about their condition. As far as the master cylinder, rebuilding the stocker will be the least-expensive option and give just as much overall 'performance' as a swap.

With those oddball special front calipers, about all you can do is make sure everything is working as well as it can. You could gain a slight amount of performance by swapping to the '80-up slotted rotors or drilling the ones you have if you feel ambitious. And you have to decide if you want organic or metallic pads, both of which have pros/cons. But realistically, unless you're a pretty aggressive rider you're not likely to notice much difference between these various options IMO...