What parts of a XS11 need lubricating??

[crazy steve]

...XS brake disks are some kind of Stainless Steel and I've never seen one that rusted yet...

If the rotors have been gotten too hot, they will rust. The hotter you get them, the faster they rust...

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Fred

Stain"less" steel is just that, steel that sains "less". That is why it is not called stainproof steel. I live in Florida, walking distance from the salt ocean, Here are come pic's of my rotors after sitting for a few days The back one did overheat and will be replaced, the fronts are just normal ware. Now you have seen 3 stainless steel rotors that rust

Hi Lon,
rust?
Guzzi disks are cast iron and they'll grow a coat of rust as you park for lunch on a rainy day but
XS brake disks are some kind of Stainless Steel and I've never seen one that rusted yet.
WTF kinda acid rain air are you guys trying to breathe down there?

[cywelchjr]

If you study the layout of the input splines of the final drive system, you will have to be impressed with the ingenuity of the Yamaha engineers.
They solved a lubrication problem with an inexpensive manufacturing solution.
Lubricate the joint EXACTLY as the manual specifies, and you are good to go. CZ

Actually the problem is that you can lube that joint exactly as the manual says and have it fail due to no grease getting into the splines. Because of the way that joint is put together, pretty much NONE of the grease gets to the splines and that joint will pretty much run dry after a while. So, when you change your rear wheel, just pull the FD off and put some moly grease on the splines and reassemble and then do follow the manual as well, as a little gets there, just not enough to prevent damage over the long term. It's one of the places on these bikes that the engineers didn't quite get it right.

[bikerphil]

I live in Florida, walking distance from the salt ocean

No rust on my rotors, I live 10 miles inland. The Gulf waters also must be a bit more corrosive than the Atlantic.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Ocean

There is a BIG difference between parking your bike next to the ocean and parking your bike 10 miles from the ocean, I guess my rotors prove that

No rust on my rotors, I live 10 miles inland. The Gulf waters also must be a bit more corrosive than the Atlantic.

[CaptonZap]

It's one of the places on these bikes that the engineers didn't quite get it right.

Well Cy, I'd hate to argue with you, but the engineers figured out an elegant solution to the lubrication problem of those splines.
It has to do with gravity, geometry, and the nature of grease. And it saved a few rather costly machining steps, and a couple of parts, in the manufacturing process.
There is nothing wrong with the steps you advocate, but the process described in the manual, if it is followed exactly, is adequate for all practical purposes. CZ

[Brent]

U-joint lube?

I see no easy way to lube the universal joint at the front tf the drive shaft. I had one fail, heard of another. on my list of things to do later is take it apart and squirt some grease into it. Steering head bearings too.

Anyone put zerk fittings in any of these?

Brent in GA
PS my 80 XS1100 special has no grease fitting for break pedal shaft, but it needs sone penetrating oil, WD-40 etc sprayed into it from time to time. I notice that 80 standards have grease fitting there at break pedal shaft.

[cywelchjr]

Well Cy, I'd hate to argue with you, but the engineers figured out an elegant solution to the lubrication problem of those splines.
It has to do with gravity, geometry, and the nature of grease. And it saved a few rather costly machining steps, and a couple of parts, in the manufacturing process.
There is nothing wrong with the steps you advocate, but the process described in the manual, if it is followed exactly, is adequate for all practical purposes. CZ

When I did the FD swap on mine, which I had been doing the maint by the book as described in the manual, the splines in the FD were almost totally dry, even though the driveshaft was almost bathed in grease, as none of that grease gets into the shaft->FD joint where it's needed. The procedure for manually greasing the splines exists because it's been documented both because of damage and checking that the grease does NOT get where it's needed from that grease fitting, no matter how much grease you pump in there. Frankly the nature of grease and how it behaves on a spinning shaft is what prevents it from getting to where it needs to be. I even had some grease all the way up to the front splines of the drive shaft, but the rear splines were almost bone dry.

So I would have to ask, have you pulled your FD and checked that coupler? I know I was shocked at what I found, and I'll be pulling the FD and lubing that joint with each tire change, and following the manual procedure in between (because a very small amount of grease wicks into there, but not enough over long term without supplementing it with manual lubrication). And yes, I'm speaking from having inspected the joint in question with it having been lubed per the manual for over 15,000 miles, and the are around the shaft had so much grease in it that the shaft was practically encased in grease, and it STILL didn't get into those splines!

[crazy steve]

I see no easy way to lube the universal joint at the front of the drive shaft. I had one fail, heard of another. On my list of things to do later is take it apart and squirt some grease into it. Steering head bearings too.

Anyone put zerk fittings in any of these?

There's not enough clearance to install zerks on the u-joint (notice this is plural); the joint isn't cross-drilled like an automotive type, so you'd need one on each cap. But there still isn't enough internal room for a zerk. You might be able to drill/tap each cap for a plug though...

The steering head bearings can be greased by a zerk, but I wouldn't recommend it. I've got a bike with that 'feature', and if you pump enough grease in there to do any good, it ends up weeping out the bottom bearing and making a continual mess. I only did that once...

[CaptonZap]

And yes, I'm speaking from having inspected the joint in question with it having been lubed per the manual for over 15,000 miles, and the are around the shaft had so much grease in it that the shaft was practically encased in grease, and it STILL didn't get into those splines!

Alright CY, we both have our opinions.
Let me explain my reasoning.
Grease is basically a sponge for suspending oil, which is the lubricant. The soaps in the grease are just there to keep the oil from running to the bottom of whatever container it is in. (We will get to this later) Remember the drips of oil that run down the plunger shaft on the grease gun after it has hung from the pump plunger when you hang it on the nail? That is the oil running out of the soaps.
Oil migrates on the surfaces that it contacts.
Oil loses viscosity (gets thinner) as it gets warmer, and gravity sucks. (Pulls the oil down)
Anybody who puts a splined joint together without slathering on a coating of lubricant should go back to mechanics 101.
If you noticed the washer that was welded into the inside of the swing arm, just ahead of the splined coupler on the pinion shaft when the final drive is installed, you noticed that the hole in it was about a half inch above the bottom of the swing arm tube. This creates a tub, for lack of a better description, that extends from the washer back to the seal on the pinion shaft.
The splines on the coupling and shaft have little relative motion, and what there is, is oscillatory, which means that the oil that is on the mating surfaces gets worked back and forth and not run off of the surfaces. Unlike a journal bearing, (connecting rod) which tends to run the oil out of the bearing area. Yes, I know, centrifugal force will throw the oil in the splines to the inside of the splines of the coupler, but bear with me.
When you look at the coupling area from ten feet to the side of the bike, and use your X-ray vision, (or a little imagination), you will notice that splines are at a level that is below the lower edge of the hole in the washer in the swing arm, and that the back end of the splines is downhill from the front. (This assumes that the bike is not over loaded, or has weak springs).
Now, the manual calls for packing the splines with moly grease, NLGI-2M, presumably because of the high pressure lubricating qualities of the moly. They keep the peaks on metal left from the machining process from welding to each other when they slide across each other under load.
I also like to pack the hollow in the back end of the drive shaft with grease. We'll get some benefit from that, using centrifugal force when the drive shaft is spinning.
Then, after the final drive is bolted on, the manual directs us to pump 30 cc of the grease into the zerk, and recommends this to be done every some thousand miles. (Depending on which manual you read. Clymers says 8000, Yamaha says 4000. This is probably not the time to say "your mileage may vary", but what the heck.)
If you have one of those small tube grease guns, you will notice that they have three ounces of grease in them, and 30 cc of grease is about one ounce, so you need to pump in a third of the grease that was in the full tube.
You will also notice, using your X-ray vision again, that after the shaft and coupling were inserted into the swing arm, that there was not a lot of room left for the grease, and a third of a small tube of grease will pretty well fill the space inside,
So now we have the space around the coupler pretty well filled with grease. Let's go for a ride.
The final drive will get warm, or hot, depending on your riding style. The oil between the splines will get slung out to the splines of the coupler, but with a dam of grease at the open end of the coupler, it won't go far. Remember the grease that we put into the hollow at the back end of the drive shaft? The oil in that grease will try to get out of the hole, (centrifugal force) but will have to run between the splines toward the front of the coupling, and that is up hill most of the time, and will pile up behind the oil that is blocked by the grease dam at the front end of the coupling.
Great ride! We park it.
The oil that is in the splines will run downhill, or, seep is probably a better word, or migrate through the soaps, if you really want to get technical, to the rear of the coupling, and migrate onto the surfaces of the splines, ready for next time.
The oil in the grease packed into the space around the coupling, being warm, will tend to settle down into the tub formed by the washer in the front. The oil level will hopefully be above the front opening of the coupler, and will replenish any oil slung out during the ride.
The odds of any one spline always being at the top after parking, and thus not being replenished, I will leave to the mathematically inclined.
The wrong grade of grease, or old grease, will alter the working of this scenario. NGLI-2M is a standard weight of grease, and a fresh tube will do two bikes, so the price is right.
And that is my take on it. The fact that the factory didn't change the method over the production run of 5 or 6 years indicates to me that, if done as directed, using the grease specified, it will do it's intended job. Once again, YMMV. CZ

[Brent]

squeak

He said it squeaks when he rolls it

Squeek, squeek , squeek while you roll it...sounds like breaks.

Check & grease where speedometor cable goes into front wheel.

Good luck wrenching

[motoman]

I'm with CZ on this issue. Have owned mine from new(cept the 14yrs. selling it), and the retaining nuts still have the black powercoating on them. So I KNOW its never been removed. I also know it's packed full of lube in there.....how?......cause it WILL slighty weep around the pinion shims at the mount......why?........IMO, cause the grease has hardened in the upper end of tube and has no where else to go..............and that's 81,000miles of NOT putting around town.........it's a Venturer.........and still going strong BTW.

[3Phase]

If you noticed the washer that was welded into the inside of the swing arm, just ahead of the splined coupler on the pinion shaft when the final drive is installed, you noticed that the hole in it was about a half inch above the bottom of the swing arm tube. This creates a tub, for lack of a better description, that extends from the washer back to the seal on the pinion shaft.

Cap'n, unfortunately that washer welded into the swing arm tube doesn't make a good tub because the drive shaft screws up the grease.

Literally.

I greased the drive shaft/final drive coupler splines when I put on a new tire and when I checked it during the next tire change most of the grease was gone. The drive shaft acted like an Archimedes screw and I found the missing grease on the other side of the washer in the upper part of the swing arm tube.

Adding grease through the Zirk fitting didn't work, either. It displaced some of the existing grease but most of it went up the swing arm and made an even bigger pile of useless, wasted, grease on the wrong side of the washer.

I've been conducting an old-school experiment with a hammer, a brass drift and a grease-soaked chunk 'o leather packed into the swing arm tube around the drive shaft between the splines and the washer and it seems to work.

If I don't go crazy with the grease gun I can use the Zirk fitting without filling the upper part of the swing arm tube with grease. The leather seats fairly well and it's tough enough to take a lot of abuse but it has enough 'give' to keep it from binding or burning. I do not trust it enough yet to skip pulling the final drive and greasing the splines when I have to put on a new rear tire because I'm still in the relatively early stages of testing.

The main drawback so far is that it's very difficult to tell how much grease to add through the Zirk fitting.

The leather packing also makes removing and installing the drive shaft more complicated. The flare at the upper end of the drive shaft with the yoke splines won't go through the leather so it has to be removed and replaced any time you remove the drive shaft.

[motoman]

After posting, read all of your post CZ.............dead-on. Have seen the seperation of grease alot, espessially that of Super-Sta red. I also have seen the lubricating qualities of it in LARGE truck/equipment applications. That is why I just happen to use it, still, even today on all applications. A high quality lube can do you amazing things. I also know the film it leaves is almost impossible to remove with a HIGH pressure steam-cleaner. That seperation I always figured has reached a liquid level enough in that area to seep in that spline connection to do its job..........least I surmised that some thirty years ago and the proof is in the pudding as far as I'm concerned at 80,000 plus miles. Unless absolutely necessary, have no reason to remove what was shimmed and aligned at the factory.......bad choice unless something is array IMO.......least for any kind of longgivity that the Bentley has achieved at this point.

[James England]

If you study the layout of the input splines of the final drive system, you will have to be impressed with the ingenuity of the Yamaha engineers.
They solved a lubrication problem with an inexpensive manufacturing solution.
Lubricate the joint EXACTLY as the manual specifies, and you are good to go. CZ

They didn't solve it at all. As previously mentioned the FD zerk does absolutely nothing. Lubricate this point exactly as the manual specifies and it does no good whatsoever because no grease goes onto the FD splines. The only way to grease them is to strip the FD off and put grease in. The zerk fitting could just as well be removed and the hole blocked up for all the good it does.....IMO. I've stripped several of these bikes and in every case, including my own bike, the swing arm was full of manky old grease, with hardly anything where it needs to be. Really.... the only way to be sure is to ignore the zerk and take it to bits.