Rainy day blues

[BA80]

I can't tell you how because I don't have the wiring diagram here at work but somehow the ignition circuit is grounded when the ignition is off. Since the coil in the solenoid is fed by the ignition when the key is on and completes the circuit when you ground the blue wire, the polarity is reversed with the key off and putting power to the blue wire actuates the solenoid.

Best I can explain it........but it works.

[cywelchjr]

Still, if one were to do what Greg suggests, you would just be direct powering that circuit, and I think that with everthing else on that circuit there is enough of a ground through everything else to do what Greg states. It's not what was intended to happen, and I'm not sure it's a good idea (as an electronic tech I would NOT recommend it) but I can see how it may work on SOME bikes, maybe even on a large number of them, maybe on almost all.

However, what *I* would recommend for a similar way to test the solenoid, would be to turn the key on, and then to jumper that blue wire to GROUND! That bypasses the possible bad starter button, but not I believe a bad stop switch. If you just want to test the solenoid and starter, you can run a jumper from the positive of the battery (or the in on the solenoid actually) to the red wire on the solenoid to power the solenoid and then ground the blue wire, that should crank the engine, and may even start it. YMMV, I haven't tried this, I'm just going by the wiring diagram on my computer here for the 80G which should be close enough for other models. The red is the hot into the solenoid, the blue is the ground to complete the circuit, that's all that you need to test the solenoid and starter-> battery circuit.

[cywelchjr]

I can't tell you how because I don't have the wiring diagram here at work but somehow the ignition circuit is grounded when the ignition is off. Since the coil in the solenoid is fed by the ignition when the key is on and completes the circuit when you ground the blue wire, the polarity is reversed with the key off and putting power to the blue wire actuates the solenoid.

Best I can explain it........but it works.

It's throught all the other stuff on there. It's not really something I would call a good idea, as what your actually doing is trying to power the bike THROUGH the solenoid backwards, not really what I as an electronics tech would recommend. Read my previous post for a recommended procedure for the same test that should be safe. (I haven't tested the procedure yet though, but I will test it by this weekend if not before if for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity unless someone else reports back).

[B.B.]

expirament complete. now whats the culprit

Ok guys thanks for the great advice. Sorry to start such a debate but I have enjoyed the reading.

So here is what I did (from the advice that I was given) and here is what happened.

To begin with I tried to move the stop switch while holding down the starter button and got nothing. Then I removed the two screws from the box on the handle bars (not sure what its called) and unhooked the 2 red/white wires attached to the stop button and cleaned them/replaced them and still nothing.

2nd- I layed a screwdriver upon the 2 nuts on the solenoid and the bike turned over.

3rd- I jumped a wire from the postive side of battery to the red/white wire at the solenoid and it turned over.

4th- I jumped a wire from the negative side of the battery to the blue/white wire and got nothing.

So were do I go from there?

[BA80]

Turn on the key and see if you have power to the 2 small wires on the solenoid.

[B.B.]

Turn on the key and see if you have power to the 2 small wires on the solenoid.

How do i do that

[BA80]

It's throught all the other stuff on there. It's not really something I would call a good idea, as what your actually doing is trying to power the bike THROUGH the solenoid backwards, not really what I as an electronics tech would recommend. Read my previous post for a recommended procedure for the same test that should be safe. (I haven't tested the procedure yet though, but I will test it by this weekend if not before if for no other reason than to satisfy my own curiosity unless someone else reports back).

Yeah but, that coil doesn't carry enough amps to really hurt anything. Besides, when the key is on and the ignition relay is energized there full amps running through the red wire.

Somehow that ignition relay creates a ground when it's deenergized. It should just be an open circuit I would think.

[BA80]

How do i do that

With a test light. Connect the aligator clip to ground (- side of the battery) and touch the probe to either wire, it should light up on both with the key on.

[B.B.]

ok I do not have a test light, but I do have a multimeter reader, just dont know how to use it all that well. Any other suggestions?

[BA80]

You need to get yourself a test light. A handy tool for this sort of thing.

OK, with the key on just ground the connection where the blue wire connects to the solenoid like Cy said. If there is power there the engine should turn over.

[DGXSER]

Edit, since you have a meter, set it to DC volts. The two parallel lines, one solid one dashed. Set it to the 20 setting.

Now put the black lead to the engine or any other barish metal on the bike frame. Put the red lead to the tan wire side of the ignition fuse. if you have 12 volts there, move it to the red white wire side, on the connector, not on the fuse. See if you have 12 volts there. If you do, then pull the switch apart on the bars, and check each side of it for 12 volts. If its only on one side, your switch is bad. If its on both sides, then check at the solenoid for 12 volts on the red white wire connection.

[crazy steve]

Ok guys thanks for the great advice. Sorry to start such a debate but I have enjoyed the reading.

To begin with I tried to move the stop switch while holding down the starter button and got nothing. Then I removed the two screws from the box on the handle bars (not sure what its called) and unhooked the 2 red/white wires attached to the stop button and cleaned them/replaced them and still nothing.

2nd- I layed a screwdriver upon the 2 nuts on the solenoid and the bike turned over.

3rd- I jumped a wire from the postive side of battery to the red/white wire at the solenoid and it turned over.

4th- I jumped a wire from the negative side of the battery to the blue/white wire and got nothing.

So were do I go from there?

Ok, your first step only partially addressed the kill switch; what you need to do is disassemble it and clean the contacts. Remove the wires, then also pull the knob assembly out. Remove the c-clip and pull the knob off (be careful; there's several small springs and a ball in there and they're easy to lose) and you'll see the actual contacts. Clean these until they're a shiny copper color and reassemble. This may fix the problem.

Step two proves that your starter works...

Step three means your solenoid is good, but you may have other wiring problems. If you had the key on, you still don't have power to the solenoid as this wire should have power. The other issue is, were you pressing the starter button when you did this? If not, then the solenoid shouldn't have worked, which leads us to...

Step four. If the key wasn't on, this would be normal. If the key was on and it didn't work, you don't have power (step three).

How to check it? If you have a meter, check for voltage at the red/white wire at the solenoid with the key on. Got power? If so, that part is good. No power? Then you need to check to see where you're losing it. Here's a troubleshooting guide: http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...roubleshooting Once you have power at the red/white wire, the bike should turn over when you press the starter button. Still won't? Jumper the blue/white to ground (the negative battery terminal or the frame) and if it works now the problem is in the button, the ground connection at the button, or the wire going to it. Trace the wiring via the guide and make sure you have continuity through all the various points; somewhere there's a poor connection and that's your problem.

[B.B.]

[QUOTE=crazy steve;340741]
Step two proves that your starter works...

Step three means your solenoid is good, but you may have other wiring problems. If you had the key on, you still don't have power to the solenoid as this wire should have power. The other issue is, were you pressing the starter button when you did this? If not, then the solenoid shouldn't have worked, which leads us to...

Step four. If the key wasn't on, this would be normal. If the key was on and it didn't work, you don't have power (step three).

Ok I did a few other things.

I took the switch completely off and cleaned it really good and tryed it again. Nothing.

To answer your Q's to the above mentioned. on step 3 and 4 I had the key switch on and I was pushing the starter button.

Went back out with the test meter. I got a reading on the blue/white wire above the the ignition fuse but nothing on the red/white wire on the underside of the fuse with the key off or on. Nothing at the red/white wires at the cutt off switch either. And nothing at the red/white wire on the solenoid.

So wha to look at now? and am I getting closer to isolating the problem?

[crazy steve]

...Went back out with the test meter. I got a reading on the blue/white wire above the the ignition fuse but nothing on the red/white wire on the underside of the fuse with the key off or on. Nothing at the red/white wires at the cut-off switch either. And nothing at the red/white wire on the solenoid.

So what to look at now? and am I getting closer to isolating the problem?

You are getting closer....

If you don't have power at the red/white at the fusebox, that's your problem (hopefully, assuming there isn't others ). If you have power above the fuse at the brown wire, then either the fuse is bad or you have a bad connection at the fuseholder. This is where power originates in this circuit, so if you don't have it here, you won't have it anywhere else....

[DGXSER]

Not to long ago, I had a local XSive ask me to come look at their bike with a similar issue. They had just replaced the fuse panel with the one from TC.

After about ten to fifteen minutes, we figured out the one connector was not tightly crimped to the wire. And it was the red/white wire. So the fuse had power, even the connector the red/white wire was in had power, but nothing at the wire itself. Replaced the connector and it worked great ever since.