Failed XS750 Final Drive (Images and video link)

[BA80]

Well, Greg, because you're just trolling, that's why.

After seeing the pictures and reading the explanations written by some pretty sharp individuals the best you could come up with was that the real world is different for you. You're not actually interested in the answers or the pictures except to amuse yourself and only small children or childlike adults do that so you were given an answer appropriate for small child or a childlike adult.

On the totally off chance that you are actually interested in the subject and you have been woefully misunderstood all along then do yourself a favor and do your own research. Post your results with pictures.

The pinion assembly will slide right out of the final drive and there are only ten nuts and washers holding on the right side cover and ring gear. The next time you change the rear tire on your XS and pull the final drive to grease the splines, take a look at the bearings and the gears. Be careful when you put it all back together. If you cut the lip of the seal on the ring gear the final drive will leak oil all over the place and you will be doomed (DOOMED!) when the back tire spins up in its own oil slick and tries to slide out from underneath you.

Oh, and it would also help your credibility if you had some pictures of the inner workings of the drive from before you installed it on your bike. "I don't remember the mileage when I installed the drive ..." simply isn't believable.

Unless you have detailed before and after pictures that you posted well before you actually completed the 750 mod that won't cut the mustard with any serious art critic.

So I'm sorry if I woke you up now go back to sleep and finish your nap or you'll be fussy and cranky for the rest of the day!

Well I was trying to have a discussion including MY point of view but you seem hell bent on you childish name calling and ridicule so I say, wallow in your own.

After the first go around with your "know it all" attitude I was pretty much done with you but after a few cute little quips from you I thought I would give it another chance but after this I'm done.

You know everything and if someone doesn't believe it all they have to do is ask you.

[TopCatGr58]

Alright, who opened up the HBT forum??

Greg, and Davinci/Randy,

It's comments similar to the ones you both have made in this thread and recent others that shut down the HBT and got many folks banned. I don't know why you guys can't see the EVIDENCE that Scott so PRECISELY presented with regards to the 750FD swap, the durability of it on the XS11, and the "POSSIBLE" resultant failure that "CAN" occur if the FD is put under what would be normal levels of stress for the stock XS11 FD?

He and US are not saying to not do the 750 FD swap, it provides folks with the lower rpms they want at the higher highway speeds, but it comes with a possible price. The XS11 engine is quite a bit stronger than the 750 and it can exert more stress on the drivetrain components both in everyday normal style use/riding as well as "Spirited" riding. I remember reading about a fellow that raced the XS11 using a TURBO, and had problems TWISTING the driveshafts! The OEM driveshaft wasn't built to withstand the extra forces that the TURBO powered engine put upon it. Likewise for the 750 FD on an XS11.

Scott DOES Know his stuff, and has provided ample photo documentation with regards to the FD failure, the parts comparisons, etc.! IT's quite obvious that the 750 FD is not as strongly built as the XS11 FD, and Scott has provided information to those who have already performed the swap as well as those contemplating it, that the 750 FD has failure/stress points that most likely can not withstand the increased stresses/forces of torque and HP that the XS11 can exert upon it, and that it will be PRUDENT for folks to both try to limit their exhuberant use of the XS11's power, and to be watchful of their FD oil and signs of excessive metal in the oil, etc..

He has stated that he's going to put another 750 FD on his bike despite what has happened to this one because he does like the rpm advantage that it provides. BUT he will be trying to reduce the amount of stress he puts on the FD when riding the bike, ie, more sedate accelerations, etc.. He will still also be monitoring the replaced 750 FD for signs of pending failure as well, because he's NOW aware that it is NOT as strong as the OEM XS11 one, and that it MAY still fail on him...hopefully in the far distant future many 10's of thousands of miles down the road.

We hope that everyone that have already installed the 750 FD have no problems at all, but due to the REAL WORLD Evidence of this failure, along with as you mentioned Tod/Trbig's FD failure, that failure of the 750 FD is a very REAL WORLD possibility, and that we just hope folks are vigilant in monitoring their FD oil for any early signs of pending failure...so that they can remove/swap it before it CATASTROPHICALLY fails and possibly hurts or kills someone!

[BA80]

Originally Posted by 3Phase
Well, Greg, because you're just trolling, that's why.

After seeing the pictures and reading the explanations written by some pretty sharp individuals the best you could come up with was that the real world is different for you. You're not actually interested in the answers or the pictures except to amuse yourself and only small children or childlike adults do that so you were given an answer appropriate for small child or a childlike adult.On the totally off chance that you are actually interested in the subject and you have been woefully misunderstood all along then do yourself a favor and do your own research. Post your results with pictures.

The pinion assembly will slide right out of the final drive and there are only ten nuts and washers holding on the right side cover and ring gear. The next time you change the rear tire on your XS and pull the final drive to grease the splines, take a look at the bearings and the gears. Be careful when you put it all back together. If you cut the lip of the seal on the ring gear the final drive will leak oil all over the place and you will be doomed (DOOMED!) when the back tire spins up in its own oil slick and tries to slide out from underneath you.

Oh, and it would also help your credibility if you had some pictures of the inner workings of the drive from before you installed it on your bike. "I don't remember the mileage when I installed the drive ..." simply isn't believable.

Unless you have detailed before and after pictures that you posted well before you actually completed the 750 mod that won't cut the mustard with any serious art critic.

So I'm sorry if I woke you up now go back to sleep and finish your nap or you'll be fussy and cranky for the rest of the day!

[3Phase]

[mute self]

[BA80]

I wonder where the moderation was there????

[BA80]

+1

[mute self]

[b.walker5]

So, Brian, I'm not only a stupid liar but I ride like a lunatic? "Thank you, sir, may I have another!"

Whoa there buddy. That's not what i said at at all. I wasnt criticising your riding style, far from it. Just pointing out from my own observation that under normal riding conditions befitting an older bike then the drive swap should be just fine, and that for those that ride a little harder then there may be an issue as highlighted by yourself. By your own admission you weren't exactly treating it with kid gloves, and thats fine, you wanted to 'test' it's durability, and you did. It's valuable info to have and allows a more informed choice on what has been a contensious issue since Chop first highlighted it.

If i've offended you then i'm sorry, but I think Gregs comments may have left you a little over sensitive. Chill brother, no ones picking on you! Well, I'm not anyway.

[TopCatGr58]

Here we go again!

I wonder where the moderation was there????

A properly lubricated bearing will not fail. It looks to me that that bearing overheated and failed do to lack of, or improper lubrication. If that bearing failed due to stress, why are all the others (subjected to the same stresses I might add) appearing to be OK?

The galling patterns on that failed gear appears to be due to improper pinion depth adjustment. The heal toe contact of the teeth is ALL WRONG.

I believe your analysis is all wrong here Scott. I believe you will need a few more than 1 control subject before you start GUESSING at causes.

Well, I'm getting a bit Pissed Off as well....YES, I saw your reply BEFORE you editted it OUT.

The thread has been being read from it's inception. Greg, I don't know your history of mechanical knowledge or training, but your first bolded statement sounds rather ABSOLUTE to me. I have very little formal mechanical or physics training..I'll admit it, but I would suspect that IF a bearing that's designed to handle/withstand a certain amount of stress/load is subjected to a much higher level that it could possibly still fail even though it were properly lubricated...failure possibly occuring thru actual change of bearing shape/components because of excessive forces that it was not necessarily designed to endure.

Your second bolded statement comes across as a bit of a slap in the face in it's TONE and accusation. And if I were Scott, I too, would have felt quite insulted. I saw your other comments later on sprinkled with smileys and such, but the personal slight had already been committed, and he was just tired of having to justify his already proven and documented conclusion for the failure.

T.C.

[BA80]

Well, to each his own I guess.

I can see where this is headed.

And I DIDN'T EDIT IT..............STEVE DID. I MEANT what I said.

If I have offended anyone with MY opinion I apologise. It was not my intention, as were some others, but there seems to be a double standard here.

For the record, I didn't REFUTE Scotts findings, merely the method in which the research was done. I still believe the 850 FD is PLENTY strong enough to run on the 1100 and Scott said so himself.

I have NO IDEA how my (and only mine) comments on the subject were blown completely out of proportion.

I will refrain from posting in this thread from now forward since I seem to have nothing to contribute.












Well...............yes..............I suppose I do

[latexeses]

Hey Scott,

Remember:

"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished...or appreciated"

Good job, the info is going into my book of "Yamaknowledge"..

[James England]

Scott, old bean, I don't think you could have done a better job in presenting your 'autopsy' findings for the benefit of everyone. It's a balanced and illuminating exposee which certainly made me check my 750FD and report back. I asked you one question which was "did you examine the 750FD which you used, before putting it on" and, yep, you had. This makes your photos and findings even more valid since you had an observed starting point for the 750FD and the end result too. I found it very informative, cautionary and extremely useful.

Looking at this FD swap thing, it seems to me that the salient points are:

1. The 750FD ratios are nice on the XS1100 but the drive itself is not as robust. This means that..

2. Over-exuberant use/abuse will cause excessive wear and possibly resulting in catastrophic failure.

3. People do the FD swap in order to lessen the perceived stresses on the engine and perceived too high revs in top gear at all speeds. Anyone who does the swap is therefore unlikely to swap the drive, then jump on the bike and try to wheelie and do a standing quarter as fast as possible, or fit NO2 or a turbo. They will get on the bike, take off moderately fast, cruise along 'boringly' at 70mph and enjoy and engine that doesn't feel like it's thinking about disassembling itself. These people will probably accelerate at the same rate as a 750 but, because the 1100 is heavier, the FD will still be under more stress than on the 750 itself so.....

4. We all check our drives, look out for what you've showed in your excellent pictorial, proceed with caution, monitor our oil quality and FD temps and, thanks to your efforts in providing what you have, ......

5. Last longer... both 750FD and, therefore, rider.

Have I got that about right?

Unfortunately, when one is knowledgeable about anything at all, one can be misinterpreted as a 'know-it-all' and that's a bit of a shame. Not to be perceived that way means keeping quiet, which kind of defeats the purpose of a forum, methinks.

BTW... you mentioned my ballast resistor and the North Sea (or was it the Channel Tunnel?).... what ballast resistor? I got rid of it when I put 3 ohm Dyna coils on the bike. HAH! So you're NOT a know-it-all, after all!

[3Phase]

Well, that was fun! I took Greg's sage advice and used the restroom before going off for a ride yesterday!


Important Safety Tip #3.33: When you put a stock final drive back on your XS11 after using a 750 final drive for a couple of years you will need to pay attention to how much throttle you use when you run up through the gears so that you actually remain on and on top of the motorcycle and that the motorcycle remains shiny side up and on both of its wheels at the same time.

You will also have to be very careful about gear selection when downshifting so the motorcycle doesn't buck, jump, skid, chirp, crow-hop and fishtail wildly while trying to throw your dumb self off of it's back!


T.C., Steve, thank you, both of you!


Greg, you are correct. Someone needs to carefully monitor the wear and tear on a statistically meaningful number of 750 final drives before any reasonable person can look at the data and come to an accurate and meaningful conclusion.

That someone isn't me.

I think Randy volunteered first but as you were its most eloquent advocate it was your idea, really, so I think you two should collaborate and begin the experiment with the 750 drive you have on your XS and keep going from there until you have managed to compile enough data to satisfy yourselves that you have reached or passed over the top of the bar you have set.

If the XS11 site Copyright allows it then you can use the data I have provided in this thread so you don't have to start completely from scratch and I look forward to the final results of your tests.


Brian, my comment wasn't aimed specifically at you and it's actually difficult to contest the lunatic part. I was actually more than a little surprised that someone all the way down in New Zealand would notice the way I ride!


James, I think the North Sea would put you somewhere a little further north than France but of course I meant the over the Channel; off the cliffs at Dover to Normandy and back with the entire XSive 16 HP serving to keep you on top of the water with the ballast for balance but since you've removed that key component from your bike you should probably use the Chunnel.


Rodger ....

[natemoen]

Well, that was fun! I took Greg's sage advice and used the restroom before going off for a ride yesterday!

Greg, you are correct. Someone needs to carefully monitor the wear and tear on a statistically meaningful number of 750 final drives before any reasonable person can look at the data and come to an accurate and meaningful conclusion.

That someone isn't me.

I think Randy volunteered first but as you were its most eloquent advocate it was your idea, really, so I think you two should collaborate and begin the experiment with the 750 drive you have on your XS and keep going from there until you have managed to compile enough data to satisfy yourselves that you have reached or passed over the top of the bar you have set.

If the XS11 site Copyright allows it then you can use the data I have provided in this thread so you don't have to start completely from scratch and I look forward to the final results of your tests.

I don't know but I would call that baiting....how bout we all just knock it off...

[3Phase]

I don't know but I would call that baiting....how bout we all just knock it off...

Yes, Master!

No, Nate, that is not bait. That is a genuine suggestion along with an offer to share and gain useful data for a technical forum. Have you considered adding a 750/850 final drive to your XS?

[natemoen]

Have you considered adding a 750/850 final drive to your XS?

I have one waiting. I want to put some more miles on with the stock one first though.