OEM Flashers, and Anybody with Test equipment?..

[crazy steve]

One issue with these bikes is that horribly-expensive factory turn signal flasher and the fact that they won't self-cancel unless that unit is fitted.

Well, I took one apart that didn't work, and actually managed to fix it. How these work is very unlike a 'normal' flasher as there's no bi-metal strip involved. They're really a very heavy-duty unit and shouldn't fail...

Function: What you have is a normally-closed relay, but you don't have a direct power connection to its' coil. Instead, in order to 'flash' the coil, the input power goes to a capacitor. The capacitor 'charges' and once it's reached it's threshold, it 'fires' into the coil and the contacts open. Once the capacitor discharges, the coil is de-energized and the contacts close. I suspect there may be a zener diode involved, but that's where the electronics expertise and test equipment come it. To duplicate this from all-new parts, you would need to know the coil load/voltage, capacitance in farads, and the details on the diode.

If you have one that doesn't work, don't throw it away. The capacitor is 'potted' into one end of the outer shell, and gets it's 'return' path through the shell. One of the terminals on the plug is the 'circuit return' and is a friction connection to the shell, so cleaning this can fix one; scuffing this clean and reassembling fixed mine. The only other thing I see failing is the diode, and if you knew what it is, would be an easy fix.

Anyway, food for thought....

[SFerinTEXAS]

Great . A well told story and an encouragement to all . Putting this post in my noodle should the need arise. Had a similar story never told about the headlight relay. Determined all the power was where it should be so started reviewing the bosch relay post. Then figured if it was bad might as well uncrimp the case and have a look. Clear as day a soldered wire had come loose inside . got it re soldered and shazzam good as new.

[crazy steve]

I'll also point out that the plastic cover over these is actually an insulator; if the shell comes into contact with any metal parts on the bike, the signals won't work...

[natemoen]

couldn't this info be used to then create a similar flasher that would be usable with led lights and still retain the self cancelling signals ?

[crazy steve]

I think it could, but I suspect that the connected load would still have to remain the same so the net result would be no power savings.

But I could be wrong....

[CRXSi90]

http://simple-circuit.blogspot.com/2...ing-relay.html

I wanted to throw this diagram out there. How far off is this? It seems like the flashing rate would be determined by the load provided by the bulbs, and the hysteresis of the relay.

Here are questions in my head (which I may answer for myself by looking at the wiring diagram.)

Do the handlebar switches start the flashing by "pull up" or "pull down" (or neither)?
Does activating the turn signal turn on a signal filament, or turn off a running light?

I think it could, but I suspect that the connected load would still have to remain the same so the net result would be no power savings.

If you modified (lowered) the capacitance, I think you could get the time constant back to where it should be, even with the smaller load provided by the LED's.

[natemoen]

If you modified (lowered) the capacitance, I think you could get the time constant back to where it should be, even with the smaller load provided by the LED's.

Kinda what I was wondering/thinking.

[crazy steve]

That is very probably what is inside the OEM 'flasher'; I didn't look at it as closely as I probably should have...

Yes, the flash rate would be affected by both the lamp load and the impedance of the relay coil, so I would think that by changing the resistor and capacitor values it could be adjusted to flash LED lamps if the LED could handle the extra load of the relay coil current (and that's a big if). But the problem here is the OEM canceller unit is looking for a very specific load and any major change causes it to not work, and worse yet, prevents the flasher from doing it's job.

[cywelchjr]

That is very probably what is inside the OEM 'flasher'; I didn't look at it as closely as I probably should have...

Yes, the flash rate would be affected by both the lamp load and the impedance of the relay coil, so I would think that by changing the resistor and capacitor values it could be adjusted to flash LED lamps if the LED could handle the extra load of the relay coil current (and that's a big if). But the problem here is the OEM canceller unit is looking for a very specific load and any major change causes it to not work, and worse yet, prevents the flasher from doing it's job.

I don't accept that the canceler doesn't work with LED bulbs, as it's an unknown since the flasher doesn't. I'm told that TC has a unit that someone gave him as a test unit that is supposed to replace the stock flasher and work with LED turn signals. I believe that the load sensitive part is all in the flasher itself, and canceling can't happen if it's not flashing.

[tinman905]

couldn't this info be used to then create a similar flasher that would be usable with led lights and still retain the self cancelling signals ?

I believe there is a unit designed by a member here that is in the testing stages. I hope to hear the results soon. Heard it through the "grape vine"

[CaptonZap]

[QUOTE=CRXSi90;330229I wanted to throw this diagram out there. How far off is this? It seems like the flashing rate would be determined by the load provided by the bulbs, and the hysteresis of the relay.

Here are questions in my head (which I may answer for myself by looking at the wiring diagram.)


.[/QUOTE]

It sounds like , and looks that way too, that the timing is done with only the relay coil in the circuit. The relay contacts would be what power the bulbs, and they, (the contacts) have no bearing on the timing portion of the circuit.
What we need is some computer whiz to come up with a circuit that samples engine speed, number of flashes of bulbs, time of speedometer motion, etc, and devise a solid state canceler. CZ

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Folks,

Yes, ELDR/aka Ted Ratcliffe has made several of these LED self cancelling flasher units. I used it on my bike as a test, but my bike didn't have the OEM speedo with the reed switch to trigger the self cancel feature, so I couldn't provide a thorough product review for it, but it did work well for my LED signals. I've given it to Ray/Rman from the east coast to test it on his OEM machine once he gets/installs some LED signals. Will be working with Eldr to get the tech tip/product review done in the near future.

SO...Steve, it's already been DONE, I don't know if Eldr would be willing to divulge the tech specs for it? He's not looking to make much $ off of it, would be sold for $10-15.00. Stay Tuned.

T.C.

[natemoen]

Hey Folks,

Yes, ELDR/aka Ted Ratcliffe has made several of these LED self cancelling flasher units. I used it on my bike as a test, but my bike didn't have the OEM speedo with the reed switch to trigger the self cancel feature, so I couldn't provide a thorough product review for it, but it did work well for my LED signals. I've given it to Ray/Rman from the east coast to test it on his OEM machine once he gets/installs some LED signals. Will be working with Eldr to get the tech tip/product review done in the near future.

SO...Steve, it's already been DONE, I don't know if Eldr would be willing to divulge the tech specs for it? He's not looking to make much $ off of it, would be sold for $10-15.00. Stay Tuned.

T.C.

I am all over that when it is available!

[cywelchjr]

I am all over that when it is available!

I looked at the thread and it seems that you could mod your bike to work with a normal 2 prong flasher and still have auto cancel with nothing more than a relay. I'm going to try the mod this weekend, and I'm going to take pics. If it works I'll make an attempt at writing up how I did it, as it will be a permanent mod to the wiring harness in my case.

[natemoen]

I looked at the thread and it seems that you could mod your bike to work with a normal 2 prong flasher and still have auto cancel with nothing more than a relay. I'm going to try the mod this weekend, and I'm going to take pics. If it works I'll make an attempt at writing up how I did it, as it will be a permanent mod to the wiring harness in my case.

I cannot wait Cy!