Final Drive Swap Poll

[jetmechmarty]

For someone who rides at a higher percentage of the time in 4th and 5th gear, the FD mod is something to give very serious consideration to.

Yes, exactly. I failed to state it as well as you did.

[James England]

We're too far away to have a race. I'm still sure I'll smoke you

Errr.... yes, probably... especially in first gear (which is what the OEM FD is all about....monster take-off speed) but.... that's not what the FD swap is about, is it? I don't think any FD Swapper has made any claims about 'smoking' anyone as a result of the swap, have they? If so, they're wrong, IMO. The words 'lower revs', 'happier sound', 'relaxed' appear a lot in the FD postings... not 'race' and 'smoking'.

Actually, I was thinking of putting my OEM drive back on, in order to remind myself of the difference.

I suppose really, in order to retain the monster standing start etc that you (and I) love so much, the solution would have been a 6th 'overdrive' gear from scratch. Now, anyone who comes up with that mod. should be revered as a deity......

[jetmechmarty]

I don't think any FD Swapper has made any claims about 'smoking' anyone as a result of the swap, have they?

I beg to differ. Read through all the posts. It has been inferred several times that there is no difference in acceleration.

the solution would have been a 6th 'overdrive' gear from scratch. Now, anyone who comes up with that mod. should be revered as a deity......

Believe it or not, these same discussions happen on the XS650 sites. Of course, swapping a sprocket or two is easier than a FD. Too high a gear and that bike won't get out of its own way. (That is strictly my opinion.) Mike's XS has made available a higher 5th gear for the XS650. I think it a better option, but I'm not inclined to buy one. If there were more XS11's on the road, perhaps we could have a higher gear available.

[Bonz]

With all dignity and respect intended, I don't know that the stock bike would beat an FD swap bike in a run up to, say, 60 mph. Rev them both up, let 'er rip and because the stock FD is SO short, the FD swapped bike will stay in gear longer and anything other than a 1st gear sprint across and intersection, the FD swap bike is dead even, or dare I say quicker depending on the speed to which we are racing to.

Ok, DUCK, so the responses can come flying!

[psycoreefer]

what about modifying the middle drive unit,
I'm no gearing guru, and I've never seen the inside of a middle drive, but didn't honda make a CB 900 or something that had a dual ratio middle drive (or was it a final drive?) Essentially a 10 speed... then you could have the best of both worlds and choose based on the conditions at the moment....

[jetmechmarty]

HBonser,

No way. With the swapped final drive the horsepower comes up more slowly. Max HP is what, 5600? I don't remember. You get there faster with the stock unit. You put your 6'11" 270 lb body on my bike, and I'll put my 230 lbs on yours. We race, you win.

I was riding behind Randy Rago a few years back. I followed him in a passing maneuver. I almost ran him over. I even asked him what was wrong with his bike. That's when he told me he had swapped the FD. (Beautiful bike, BTW)

There's always a trade-off. You don't get somethin' for nuthin'.

[Bonz]

Yeah, Honda did that, it was a transfer case like you have on a Jeep or similar.

Can only imagine it would take a lot of work and effort to re-do something in a middle drive, as there is no middle drive swap available to my knowledge.

[Bonz]

jetmechmarty,

I believe max hp comes at 8000 rpm, max torque around 6000 from what I remember reading over the years.

Regardless, the bike is pretty limp below 3000 rpm anyway you slice it. Looks like we gotta get a couple bikes lined up side by side. It's more fun that way and reasonable people accept real outcomes!

Ok, I give... I'm just playing the other side in theoreticals here.

I would expect you to run him over if he didn't downshift...

[psycoreefer]

Another way to play with ratios is with the tire size,
SWMBO's bike has a scooter tire on it thats a 140/70/16, the advertised size is about 1 1/4" shorter than the stock 16".

[cowboybob998]

up thr jets

What comes to mind when talking about faster V. stock is all that has to be done is up the jets on the standard with the FD swap, or go to later mod biger bore carbs and you have a monster that aint gona be beat very easy and i think it will blow the doors off the special with the stock FD, but then we could add NOS or say a turbow, this discustion could go on forever, i think i will just stay with the 750 FD and injoy it the way it is and was intended to be, time will only tell which is better but i would be willing to bet that two bikes with the same miles on them, ten years down the road one with the FD swap the motor will be in better shape than the one that had no FD swap. just my opion is all.

[jetmechmarty]

I would expect you to run him over if he didn't downshift...

Thing is, I downshift too. Riding in these mountains, I keep my tach at 5K or higher. I get a nice kick upon exiting a corner. The FD swap is inappropriate for this kind of riding, as Cy was able to point out.

time will only tell which is better but i would be willing to bet that two bikes with the same miles on them, ten years down the road one with the FD swap the motor will be in better shape than the one that had no FD swap. just my opion is all.

Maybe. But it will be because of the riding style, not to mention proper maintenance.

[James England]

we could add NOS

I did this on my previous bike and used +90bhp nitrous jets. In 1995 (when I had the bike), there was nothing on the road....nothing..... that could beat that bike in a straight line. I don't know about now, with all the modern bikes. I ran it for a year using NOS and it didn't damage the engine (as far as I could tell) and the bike ran perfectly when I took it off (the person who bought it didn't want the NOS on). On a rolling road, the bike accelerated from 60mph to 120mph in 2.7seconds. OK, no wind resistance etc and a rolling road isn't a real road but it was still pretty awesome. It would never wheelie... the NOS kicked in and it raised the seat and bottomed out the rear shocks upwards, forcing the wheel down onto the road. It's very reminiscent of a Sega video game where you 'hit nitrous' and everything bcomes a blurr. Very impressive and, on public roads here, very illegal.

Oh, how we can change...now I'm going on about 750FD's and how relaxed it all is..... yawn...

[cywelchjr]

Thing is, I downshift too. Riding in these mountains, I keep my tach at 5K or higher. I get a nice kick upon exiting a corner. The FD swap is inappropriate for this kind of riding, as Cy was able to point out.

I will however point out that once you hit 2nd gear and the swapped bike is still in 1st gear the ratios are almost the exact same, so other than the 750 FD not being as durable under that kind of load (it looks like it may not last under that kind of load) the gearing difference is that everything is shifted one gear, so while it's not for everyone, especially for those who like to really hit it off the line, on a running start from from your second gear I would bet a LOT of money on a wash (remember, I have ridden the same bike both with and without, so I know what the difference is on the same roads, while your just guessing). I don't know how Randy rides, but I know I've gotten the front wheel really light once since the switch, just like second before the swap. Now, I'm going to keep a close eye on it, and who knows, I still might go back, but I doubt it, I might just go to a 130 rear tire on the next rear tire change, will put me right about where a special is, but I'll need to modify my center and side stands, I don't like how things were with the old 130 that was on the bike when I got it.

[Bonz]

What jetmechmarty said about being inappropriate for that kind of riding, that is based on the smaller swapped FD gear size handling the higher output of the 1100, yes?

I can go along with that for sure in the sense there is more potential for issues.

Out of curiosity, have there been 750 FD's on an 1100 that failed under hard riding as described by downshifting and getting a drive out of the corners, or other hard riding? Definitely could see potential damage under hard launches, then again, anybody know of 750 FD's that have failed?

[psycoreefer]

Out of curiosity, have there been 750 FD's on an 1100 that failed under hard riding as described by downshifting and getting a drive out of the corners, or other hard riding? Definitely could see potential damage under hard launches, then again, anybody know of 750 FD's that have failed?

Yes, one...
see here

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33470