HID Headlight

[DGXSER]

OK, so I have my HID headlight installed and love the amoutn of light I get from it!!.....err....when it lights.

Here is the situation, start the bike, headlight comes on immediately, just liek the stock set up. Ride the bike around for a short ride, gets up to temp. Headlight is still on. Go for a longer ride, 15-20 miles or so, headlight goes off at soem point, always been daylight so it is hard for me to say exactly when that happens, but when I stop and check it, it is off.

Now, turn the bike off, and immediately restart it, and the headlight comes right back on, stays on for at least 5 minutes, which would seem to negate the theory that it is heat related, or a short of some kind. And neither high nor low beam work when it is off.

[bikerphil]

Don't know much about these HID's, but I'd bypass the stock relay and the RLU and see if the problem persists.

[Dennyz]

Are you running your HID from the head light relay? I had that same problem with a stock headlight. It turned out to be the headlight relay. Not sure if it was a bad connection or faulty coil in the relay. The relay worked fine in the shop. Replaced it and the problem has not come back.

[DGXSER]

Bypassed the RLU as part of the install. Only did the first part in the tech tip.

I was actually unaware of the headlight relay, had the one from old Thunderstruck, so I swapped it out this evening. Unfortunately it is past sunset and I am not interested in testing this out in the cold dark night. I'll wait for another nice evening to take another cruise around the 'hood' and see if this corrected the issue.

Thanks for the info Phil and Deny!!!

[CatatonicBug]

The relay should remain in the system, assuming it's working. I had an issue with the first one I got from Taiwan, and had to return it. The setup I got from a seller in the US works without an issue. If it's a heat issue, you shouldn't have to go anywhere - just turn it on and let it sit there and get warm.

[Dennyz]

Something to watch for:

If I remember correctly, the relay is energized from the alternator, which also drives the tach. If the headlight shuts off while running, check to make sure the tach is still working. If the tach quites also, take a look at the alternator outputs.

[James England]

I've seen several threads about these HID headlamps. Are they really worth the hassle? Presumably if your headlight had stopped working at night, you'd be stuck somewhere? People seem to post similar problems... not lighting up at all, lighting up and stopping, intermittent light, returning relays etc etc...... they seem to be unreliable, problematic things and, given the importance of not having a total blackout at night whilst doing 70mph, they don't inspire me with a lot of confidence..... or have I got it wrong? I have been looking at them but reading the posts here has put me off.

[CatatonicBug]

I've seen several threads about these HID headlamps. Are they really worth the hassle? Presumably if your headlight had stopped working at night, you'd be stuck somewhere? People seem to post similar problems... not lighting up at all, lighting up and stopping, intermittent light, returning relays etc etc...... they seem to be unreliable, problematic things and, given the importance of not having a total blackout at night whilst doing 70mph, they don't inspire me with a lot of confidence..... or have I got it wrong? I have been looking at them but reading the posts here has put me off.

I think the issue is the quality of the individual units. Once you get them working, the light output is great, as is reliability. There are just a lot of issues with initial installation and getting them to work in the first place. Just be sure you know the return policy for wherever you get them from, just in case.

[cywelchjr]

Yep, better to spend a bit more for a quality unit.

That said, I just did some reading around here and found that in the U.S. as least HID headlights are only street legal if they are factory installed. In no other case are they legal for use on public highways in the U.S. at this time. I don't know what the rules are in other countries, and I don't know what the level of enforcement is in other states, but the grapevine in Ca has it that the CHP is getting reading to start a heavy crackdown on aftermarket HID headlights, and that likely means impounding the vehicles. And requiring that the owner show up with everything needed to convert back to factory headlights before they can pick the vehicle back up, plus towing and storage charges. Some say if it's a factory option and you buy the factory parts and install them it's legal, but that is a grey area, and it's likely to slide since I don't think they can check beyond whether a vehicle model COULD have HID lights or not.

[James England]

Well, I suppose there is always the issue of dazzling other road users. If they are going that far re enforcement, there must be a valid issue with these lights? Back in 1979, the XS1100 headlamp was just about legendary for brightness! The oblong ones, certainly.

I can't help thinking that, for touring or long distance, I'd prefer to keep a spare bulb in my pocket and trust to the OEM lights......

[DGXSER]

Well, I got the same setup as Bug. and it certainly works great when it is on. It is like riding in almost daylight!! Fabulous light from it!

Now initially, I ahd a problem with my stock headlight, it was as dim as could be on low beam, high beam was fine, but low beam I could not see more than 20 feet and if the road had a dip, I could not see it until I was going down the dip. Only rode it in the dark like that once. Time I got back home and pried the seat out of my arse, I was done with that!!! I tried cleaning every thing I could find, changed out the RLU, everything I could think of. Switched headlights with a known good one, same thing.

So I decided to go the HID route. And should this relay be the fix to the problem, I can tell you, it will be staying on the bike for many years to come.

As to the Federal Reg, well, it once again goes back to a FMVSS that is published being Std 108. And the first sentence of the foward to the FMVSS says
"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has a legislative mandate under Title 49 of the United States Code, Chapter 301, Motor Vehicle Safety, to issue Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FMVSS) and Regulations to which manufacturers of motor vehicle and equipment items must conform and certify compliance."

So they can crack down on the items being sold, but I do not belive thay have the right to do all the stuff Cy has stated, unless the state of Cantaffordya decides to issue a law making the aftermarket HID illegal in that state.

[crazy steve]

...the CHP is getting reading to start a heavy crackdown on aftermarket HID headlights....

That wouldn't surprise me; I've seen this sort of thing before. In the early 70s, there was a crackdown here on halogen headlights (which weren't legal yet; this was still the days of sealed-beams only) and some people got some pretty big tickets. You could buy them at the foreign car shop for 'off-road use only' and they sold like hotcakes for a while. But it wasn't too hard to spot them, as halogen has a distinctive 'color' compared to incandesent. Me, I cheated; I had a set of aftermarket headlights with better optics but bought ones that didn't use halogen lamps so the color looked conventional and I never had any issues.

One guy had a gray-market Mercedes (imported with one-piece euro headlights) and it cost him hundreds of $$$ to convert to US-spec headlights..

As far as the states enforcing this, most of them have a statement that they use the FMVSS as law or something to that effect, so they can do this. But the fact remains that these 'conversion' HID lamps don't have the same light pattern as a halogen, so when you install these in a non-HID reflector you can get light scatter and blind oncoming traffic. If you're doing that, you should get a ticket..

[cywelchjr]

That wouldn't surprise me; I've seen this sort of thing before. In the early 70s, there was a crackdown here on halogen headlights (which weren't legal yet; this was still the days of sealed-beams only) and some people got some pretty big tickets. You could buy them at the foreign car shop for 'off-road use only' and they sold like hotcakes for a while. But it wasn't too hard to spot them, as halogen has a distinctive 'color' compared to incandesent. Me, I cheated; I had a set of aftermarket headlights with better optics but bought ones that didn't use halogen lamps so the color looked conventional and I never had any issues.

One guy had a gray-market Mercedes (imported with one-piece euro headlights) and it cost him hundreds of $$$ to convert to US-spec headlights..

As far as the states enforcing this, most of them have a statement that they use the FMVSS as law or something to that effect, so they can do this. But the fact remains that these 'conversion' HID lamps don't have the same light pattern as a halogen, so when you install these in a non-HID reflector you can get light scatter and blind oncoming traffic. If you're doing that, you should get a ticket..

Yeah, I believe the Ca says that the lights must be DOT approved. Since DOT doesn't approve aftermarket HID headlights then that would be a problem wouldn't it?

As for the light pattern from the conversion lamps, the ones I have seen appear to put out pretty much the same pattern as the bulb they are designed to replace. It's a combination of where the light source is and having some sort of shield to make sure that the light source hits the reflector both from the right location and only hits the right parts of the reflector. On low beams that means that the upper part of the reflector is the one primarily used, with the light source in a lower position IIRC. I think that this non-moving unit would be more like a halogen bulb because of the dual light sources than the single source that moves forward and back, cause I don't think it moves up and down at the same time, although it may move in and out of a shield as it moves. I mean, properly designed, it should be able to work slightly better than a halogen using the same reflector, but not as well as one using a purpose designed reflector. For that matter, most halogens don't even use the same pattern as our reflectors to anyways, they have gone to the Euro pattern rather than the older US pattern we use.

[DGXSER]

So getting back to the issue of my HID working it does!!!!

Took the bike out for a 15 or so mile ride. Headlight stayed on the entire time. It is a bit cloudy so I could see it shining on the street signs and reflecting in the cars infront of me at lights and stop signs. Also when I got home it was obviously on hitting the garage door and garage wall.

So, it would seem the relay was the problem. I guess I should hang onto all the old relays and such. Either that or just full scale swap them all out. This is the barn find bike so the electronics were subjected to alot worse conditions than my other one. So it may be worth the effort to make a preemtive strike.

Thanks for the relay suggestions!! Looks like I now have a reliable headlight that will really light up the night for me.

[Crazcnuk]

No one, let alone the police, really care is you use HID (or Halogen before they were made mandatory) or not IF YOU SET THEM UP PROPERLY.

The trouble, then, as now, is that people throw them in and don't AIM them properly.

Most of what you see roaming down the highway, as far as super bright or funny colored lights, are actually other bulbs like PIAA high wattage lights.

Many high end cars come from the factory with HID now, and I can see where they will be mandatory in the future, just as Halogens became.

As for the high low thing, the HID solonoid either shortens the lenght of the glass tube, effectively moving the center of the beam in or out of the housing, in exactly the same manner as a dual filament halogen bulb.

Ideally, you want a seperate high low lighting system with single beam HIDs in the high beam slots and normal halogen bulbs in the low beam. Best of both worlds, least moving parts and cheapest all the way around.

My Sebring has this, but Chrysler decided the high beams would make wonderful low-voltage DDLs with is not compatible with HID.

As for reliability, the HIDs should be more reliable, if installed properly. Problem is putting them into museum pieces.